Fable 2 Development : Achievements, What Achievements?

Achievements, What Achievements?

Published Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:34 PM by Gothnak

Well, here we are, into the new year after my last blog entry just before Xmas (yes XMAS!). We got all the quests in, in time, and the designers have played through the whole game a couple of times. Needless to say our bug counts are on the way up, especially as the test team in the US is beginning to get their teeth into the build, but enough of that, and onto the subject of today's Blog....Achievements!

So, I'm in charge of them and if you hate them all, it's my fault. Yet again, I am sworn to secrecy on 'what' the specific achievements are, but I can babble on why we have chosen the types of achievements we have. They basically fall into the following categories:

1. Secret: Nope, we are having no secret achievements, none, nada, zero, zip. We have been told by a reliable source that games with secret achievements actually sell less copies as people like to check them out before a purchase. This is a pity as I (and most on the deb team) wanted the whole achievement system handled in game with ALL of them secret, and that by talking to villagers and finding things around the world, the achievements get revealed. Oh well, it's a pity all you guys are such achievement whores!

2. Story: There have to be a number of achievements set aside for reaching certain points through the story, so these are taken as read.

3. Combat: Obviously combat plays a major part in Fable, and therefore there are a number of achievements based on the player fighting bad men and monsters. However we have tried to steer away from grinds like ‘kill 100 Hobbes’ or ‘Butcher 100 villagers’ and focus more rewarding players who use all the aspects of combat. Therefore there will be rewards for doing ‘cool stuff’ in the 3 realms of combat and overall combat achievements.

4. Simulation: Every player will play the story in Fable 2, but we don’t know how many people will go and explore the huge simulation the game has, and that’s why we have put a decent number in that cover it. These achievements are planned to encourage the player to do all the fun things in Fable 2 that they might otherwise miss, the mantra is ‘getting achievements should be fun’ not a grind.

5. Collectors: Of course, some of you out there are completionists and there will be a number of achievements based on collecting various sets of things around the world. This also pushes players to explore all the dark recesses of every dungeon and level, and again, shouldn’t be actually repetitive.

6. Stupid: How can we have a Fable game without taking something and making it funny, well, at least we think they are funny. Some of these are a little close to the bone, so MS US might give us a poke and say ‘nope you can’t have that in’. :-)

7. Morality: Some of us noticed something interesting when playing Mass Effect, as we knew there was an achievement for being G o o d [Good] or E v i l [Evil] , some of us changed our decisions because we wanted achievement points. This was really bad as it meant the 'hero' was less about our decisions and more about getting points in game. Fortunately, unlike Mass Effect, Fable has an infinite number of and points lying around (as well as the other scale...Hmm, don't know if you know about that yet, think I mentioned it in my feartheboot blog) so hopefully people will play however they want, rather than push to an achievement. Which comes to a question, what do you think? Do you want something outside of the game (usually called a 'meta' game mechanic) influencing the way you play the game, does it spoil it for you? This is one of the categories I am split down the middle of keeping at the moment.

Finally I’d just like to pick out a few games that I thought did Achievements badly and well, see if you agree:

Blue Dragon: Terrible... I have almost finished the game, and got 35 points in total, most are for getting the characters to the highest level possible, all grind-tastic and terribly balanaced.

Eternal Sonata: Terrible... they are all secret, and so far all the ones I have had are for progressing the story, how very dull.

Avatar: Ha ha ha ha...

Guitar Hero 2: Awesome... The best use of achievements in my opinion. This was the first game that continually made me go back and get a bit more money to buy that last guitar finish, or to get that last song on 5*, brilliant balancing. Unlike Guitar Hero 3, that was balanced so poorly at the end of Hard level that it has stopped me worrying about the achievements.

PGR4: Pretty ... The achievements in PGR4 were pretty. I found myself picking up a few each time I played, and that is how I hope the Fable 2 ones work. You could also pick a specific one and finish it with 5-10 mins work, whereas others still popped up in the middle of tight races.

So, overall, we have tried to keep them varied, and reward the player for seeing the whole game (something we did very badly in Fable 1), I hope you enjoy them all.

Mike......

(N.B. This is the plan for them at the moment, I make no promises that they will stay following the 5 points above, but I will try!)

Comments

	Greg453 said: I thought that the Mass Effect achivements wher not that bad, ok they where unbalanaced and some a hrad to get (like the teammate stuff ...), but some are realy motivating. And about the secret stuff: It think that it would be nice to make all the story achivements secret, or at least not label: 'Kill X, the endboss' Because that can spoil some minor story parts ... "What?!? X is the endboss?!?" ... Mass Effect was close to spoil stuff ... Call them 'Story milestones' with the discription: 'Progress in story to get this one', and once the player got them, you can display what you wanted them to do. And please just don't name them: 'Get a ' I would prever: "Get horns" or "Scare everyone to death" Greg the Mad February 4, 2008 10:58 AM
	Gothnak said: Don't worry about spoilers, i have made sure none of the names or descriptions tell the player what will happen. Also, the names of the achievements will be themed in the Fable space, but the descriptions would have explain exactly what to do, so might need to use game terminology to guide the player how to do them. The problem with the Mass Effect ones were that they were 'grinds'. Kill X people with the pistol, use ability Y 75 times etc. Rather bland imo. February 4, 2008 11:06 AM
	RyanTheFabled said: i am personally a huge fable fan and am sad i have only recently come into contact with the many legions of fable followers around the globe. i may be daring to say this but i have played fable and fable TLC a total of 11 times each time doing doing every side quest that was possible and finding the 30 silver keys. i believe that i have dona almost everysingle thing possible in those 2 fables between owning all the buildings and mastering every spell etc... achievments are a a great way to test a players determination for a game especially in RPGs so i have no doubt that the esteemed lionhead community will give us great achievemnts to test us with. February 4, 2008 11:28 AM
	RyanTheFabled said: this is an interesting thought but i am interested to hear other fable players opionions. Should Lionhead allow downloadable content to fable 1 and fable TLC for achievemnts. i am not sure if that is possible or if that is even allowed but it would certainly be something that i would love to see and would encourage people to replay gavl again. February 4, 2008 11:30 AM
	Jahiri said: No, I do not want the meta game to influence your gamestyle. I like playing and It would really suck if I have to play to get an achievement. All achievements should be available to either or characters. And I hope that, not just like fable1 with the sword of eons, acts sometimes yield more profit that ones. Sorry if I misunderstood something or made some horrible spelling mistake ~Jahiri February 4, 2008 11:45 AM
	Mishakr said: Very nice post, Gothnak, but there is one more thing that bothers me most - when can we taste all that eye-candy outstandy Fable II bandy on PC, can't we? [I did try to put in gentle] [If there is some 'M' labeled shadows soaring around - just type "the sky is really pretty today", it would be enough for -in 2009-] February 4, 2008 1:14 PM
	Mishakr said: Very nice post, Gothnak, but there is one more thing that bothers me most - when can we taste all that eye-candy outstandy Fable II bandy on PC, can't we? [I did try to put it gentle] [If there is some 'M' labeled shadows soaring around - just type "the sky is really pretty today", it would be enough for -in 2009-] February 4, 2008 1:14 PM
	fablier said: Great post Gothnak, sounds like the achievements will be . I wish that wasn't that case with the secret achievements, the discovery thing sounds great. Oh well, a hero cookie goes to you guys away for coming up with the idea. I'm neutral on the morality achievements. It won't change how I play the game, I plan on playing both extreme and anyway. February 4, 2008 3:00 PM
	cs0218a said: If there are going to be morality achievements, the need to be on the extremes. That way the situation is "Well I was planning on being anyway, I might as well just go nuts". That way you would have to play the game through twice to get both achievements. Otherwise, you will have the situation where the gamer breaks "character" for achievements, which I don't think would be inline with what you guys are trying to accomplish. Great Post, I am quite excited for Fable 2 February 4, 2008 4:05 PM
	mikeofblades said: Nice post, how about an achievement for finding the Sandgoose or unlocking the best weapon in the game. February 4, 2008 4:09 PM
	greenghost5 said: Great Blog. It's to know that our Achievements aren't going to be "grinders" I'm glad to see that from the lokks of it they will all be fun ones. The problem for me with them is that Most of the Games to date seem more like a chore than fun when you are collecting the Achievements. Based on your summary of each type they sound like they will be balanced. As for the Morality Achievements, I would like to see them. I plan on playing Fable 2 several times, so therefore I'll be and , and those other ones too. I like the sound of the Combat achievements as well. I did have an idea although this one may be too much of a "grind" I think we should some three different Achievements for when we max out our Three different disciplines in Combat. February 4, 2008 4:52 PM
	sCM redruM said: DOA4 has the best achievement list by far...Tons of extremely difficult offline achievements, like getting 100 wins in a row in Survival and Survival Tag...Doing Time Attack with ungoDly standards for Gold and Silver Trophies...Collecting every costume, unlocking every character etc... Then you have the online component, where you need to reach almost 200k to get the ultimate SS Ranking...But also getting other grades, like B, A+, S then finally SS... I love how Tecmo really challenged gamers in getting all 1000 points...I've only met one person who got all 1000...And I play against the best players in the world everyday...And they still didn't get every achievement, it's definitely not easy... I hope you guys take a similar approach in really making it hard to get the full 1000... February 4, 2008 5:04 PM
	Kraut_Robber said: Is there still any chicken kicking? I'd like to get achievements for kicking one far, far away or beat a troll naked only equipped with the legendary frying pan (or anything equal in Fable 2). Farting on every single NPC would also be great fun for both a collecting or dumb achievement. And yes, both the Mass Effect and Blue Dragon achievements suck. I've got 690 GS at Mass Effect an I'm still replaying and replaying without any fun anymore (yeah I'm a Gamerscore-Whore) and only 370 GS after seventy to eighty hours of Blue Dragon. February 4, 2008 6:20 PM
	php_penguin said: hmm would it be possible to make the morality achievements work for either choice, for example: "slaughter or save 100 villagers", so either cut them down, or stop them getting hurt if someone tries to mug them or similar? I haven't a clue if the achievements lib would allow this, but it would stop the achievements from influencing the player too much February 4, 2008 9:59 PM
	Lebensbaum said: From what I've read here, I have complete faith in you guys to take advantage of the achievements system on Xbox 360. You'd be surprised at how many games I DON'T play/purchase because of how stupid their achievements are... or even more bizarre, how ugly the artwork is. I hate games that have pixelated, repeated images and stupid, inconsistent wording for each achievement. This seems really nit-picky (I know), but I really despise the lack of care put into this potentially brilliant system. Keep up the work, Lionhead! February 4, 2008 10:37 PM
	polarmeltdown said: Mass Effect's morality achievements did get in the way of my playing. Please, will someone make a game that rewards me for being a complex character? And Gothnak, I really appreciate your approach to Achievements. I find them motivating and fun -- but only to a point. I love a balance of points doled out for normal play, points for mastering a cool aspect of gameplay, and points for doing silly/surprising things (Portal's Achievement: Fall 10,000 feet = awesome!). But if an Achievement requires a boring grind -- forget it. I'm moving on to the next game. February 4, 2008 10:57 PM
	Demaar said: I hate secret achievements. Not because I want to know what they are, but usually because if they're secret they have spoiler names or descriptions. If I see someone posting achievements in a thread or something, I don't want to be worried about getting spoiled on the story from merely looking through a list. The way Grindtastic achievements work are indeed horrible, but I think they COULD be OK. I think the problem is instant gratification - we all want it. If you gave people an incentive to grind, say give them 5 or so gamer points for getting to level 50, 55 then 60 rather than 15 points for reaching 50, it throws the player a bone now and then, rather than giving them a feast at the end of a long haul. Finally, GH2 had SOME great achievements. There are also some REALLY stupid and annoying ones, like the Co-op stuff. I hate multiplayer achievements. If your multiplayer is , people will play it. Don't try to tempt them with achievements. COD4 is a great example of this: no multiplayer achievements, yet is second only to Halo 3 for multiplayer numbers. Oh, just remembered. Achievements you can miss are freaking lame. I want to be able to play through a game at my own pace, not thing "OK, I better go get this achievement while I still can". Ideally I'd like to be able to get all the achievements as close to the end-game section as possible. February 4, 2008 11:12 PM
	Chemical O said: Sometimes the meta-game can encourage you to replay the game. I am thinking of Bioshock, I was bad at first but there was an achievement for being "", so it made me want to play again. Great post Gothnak. The game is sounding awesome and im glad you guys are giving achievements so much consideration. February 4, 2008 11:54 PM
	AZRoboto said: I think some sort of meta data in the game would be cool, and it would just be a page in your journal with all sorts of data, such as: Enemies I've butchered: Enemies I've magically put to dead: Enemies <dog's name> has devoured: So on and so forth for the different type of data, such as life, age, magic power, level, career, real estate owned, etc. It won't influence your gameplay but it'll be cool to see "cool, Sparky has killed 123 people" If that's not what you mean and I just completely don't understand it, then disregard the above. But about the achievements, I loved Crackdown's overall. The avatar design is the best from any game (I'd pick any of those as my gamerpicture if I could), and it rewards progression and randomness (Body Juggler and Shot-Putter, for example). Their descriptions are also second-to-none. Some made me laugh. February 5, 2008 12:06 AM
	johnoffire said: I agree with AZRoboto stats are always . I like knowing how many times I have done something. I like having a record of what I have done. Back on topic. I don't like meta achievements because it limits you to ONLY or ONLY . I want to be able to make decisions. If you make it as a meta game then players will only be or . And if you where going to do that why give them choices, just have a / selection at the start of the game and be done with it. Fable is a game about choices, and alone are just to simple; it is the grey areas that makes you think. All achievements should be achieveable, with enough effort, in one playing of the game (unless that game is less than 5 hours.) A game should be played twice only for the joy of it, not because you have to grind through it to get one last achievement. February 5, 2008 1:19 AM
	RAVEK said: I wouldn't like meta-mechanics either. Especially in Fable, it's important to make your decisions as you go along, and not following some predetermined rules. Players [i]already[/i] need to be stimulated to just do as they want and not just get X points, so you don't want to make that worse. February 5, 2008 1:35 AM
	BPLlama said: The one thing I really liked about the Mass Effect achievements was the in-game bonuses that they gave you. Especially the ones that let you customize your character class with a bonus talent the second time through the game. That particular bonus doesn't really fit with the skill-based system used in Fable, since you can already mix and match your skills to create the "class" you want, but the idea of achievements feeding back into the game in some way could still be applied. February 5, 2008 1:49 AM
	SpigleyMcCheese said: No grinding achievements? I think I love you... As BPLlama said, some sort of rewards appearing in game based on the achievements would be fantastic. The novelty costumes and weapons from Dead Rising's achievements are a great example. And make some of the achievements bizarre! The weird ones which make you do odd things are the most fun. As for / achievements - I have no problem with them. They can give an incentive to go through the game again and tackle situations differently. February 5, 2008 3:04 AM
	FROMtheASHES777 said: I personally think the best system of achievements is the Orange Box. Not necessarily the achievements themselves (which were varied and creative), but what they did with the in-game system of tracking achievements. You didn't have to go to your profile to check them and they kept track of all you're grinding achievements. Mass Effect did something similar, though not as deep as the Orange Box. It's not a hassle at all to hit the Xbox button and check my profile, but it's just a nice, and what seems like an overly simple, feature to put right in the game. On a different note, with games like Fable and others that you can play multiple ways, I do like having second playthrough achievements. If the game is fun, I'll play through it period. But, for us achievement whores, it's nice to still be able to unlock stuff the second time through. Mass Effect took this way, way too far, REQUIRING at least 3 playthroughs to get all the achievements. I don't like being forced to play the game a certain way just to get achievements. Now, that doesn't mean I don't sometimes choose to play a game just for an achievement (e.g. the recent 'Brass Ball' Bioshock achievement). It's a fine line, but if I want an achievement, I'll do what I need to get it - it just depends whether it will be fun or not. February 5, 2008 3:43 AM
	jacky12 said: i like the way u have set them its pridey buts thats me February 5, 2008 5:49 AM
	Gothnak said: A quick reply to some of the points raised while I am building assets. If we do put in any specific choose or achievements, it is likely they will linked directly to part of the game that you otherwise may have missed, we want you guys to experience everything we put in the game! Although I have said that getting these achievements won't be a 'grind' this does not mean that they will be easy. It is more along the lines that if you play a certain way, some will unlock automatically, the ones you haven't unlocked might require some work (E.g. a melee character unlocking some of the will achievements). Some of the simulation achievements will require a deal of effort, but that effort should be a lot of fun, and different to how you are playing through the story, so encouraging variation. And one more thing, if all goes to plan, the grinders will have a whole other unannounced feature devoted to them, but i have to be all hush hush on that! February 5, 2008 7:06 AM
	stomp224 said: Dead rising was a great game for achievements, and when i did work experience Dene agreed(Can I say that? ), and from your blog Im please to see that your going in that direction! About the Morality achievements.....I always do a character and an one, because most games seem set up to accomodate being one or the other, with little grey area between. So i set out from the Title screen to be a /bad character, which would make such achievements irrelevant , unless you want to force a second play-through like ME(well, they forced about 4-5 playthroughs!) February 5, 2008 8:13 AM
	Portarock said: Yes to morality. You said that unlike Mass Effect the and points aren't limited so it shouldn't really force players into anything. Yes to the meta game it encourages people to play differently which grinding can also do but is usually not as fun. I probably wouldn't have player certain ways in Mass Effect if it wasn't for the achievement but now I am so glad that I did because i would have missed out on so much gameplay, story, and content wise. February 5, 2008 8:33 AM
	booozehound said: I've been thinking ahout fable 2's achievments for weeks now. All i have to say is be creative. achievements so far have been disappointing in most games, with exceptions from dead rising, crackdown, and orange box. even bioshock were sad, the majority of them just for unavoidable progression(granted the IRONY achievement was a rewarding surprise.) Too bad about the secrecy of the achievements, i was kinda hoping they all would be secret. I know! throw in something weird like LIL ROCKET MAN from hl2 ep.2. it was a pain dragging him around, but oh so funny. February 5, 2008 12:56 PM
	SilentGuerrilla said: i think that all achievements should be secret so it wont ruin the story but once you complete the story line they should be an unlocking feture that reveals all the achievements because no knowing what i neeeeed to unlock just pises me off February 5, 2008 3:10 PM
	captainoflust said: collect acheivments (i.e. crackdown agility orbs and ssassins creed flags are a bit annoying because you don't know what you have and haven't got so you end up playing the game through again to make sure u get them all. I think acheivments should be unrelated to morphs. I am such a gamerscore whore and I'd like more acheivments doing things that are unrelated to your in game choices.(but i probably will play through it at least twice anyway with / character, probably in that order) February 5, 2008 3:11 PM
	kftgr said: The grind achievements in Mass Effect were also terrible because there was no progress indicator for them. What really turned me off for M.E. was that to get all the achievements, you'd need not only 3 playthroughs, but 3 <i>exhaustive</i> playthroughs at increasing difficulties. If you're requiring replays to get all the achievements, at least don't require the player to go through the game as thoroughly as the first time around -- especially in an RPG with long playtimes. Please do not make the same mistake in Fable 2. Also, about achievements affecting gameplay...After realizing what a chore it would be to complete everything, I decided to get as much as possible through one playthrough. So my Adept, a biotics specialist untrained in anything besides pistols ended up with all the weapons achievements. That sniper rifle one was actually doable with High Explosive rounds. It actually made combat more fun to have the party stay back while I lone wolfed it. February 5, 2008 3:13 PM
	captainoflust said: and also gears acheivments rule all!!!!!!!!!!!!1 February 5, 2008 3:13 PM
	lucazanzi said: I probably played Fable:TLC 5 times through, and completed the entire game save for the Frying Pan quest (I'm onto it!). An achievement for a quest like that would probably be extremely gratifying, as well as "get X or points". Perhaps a much tougher one would be "finish the main quests with equal and points", but that would drive people into a mechanical playmode. No secret achievements: excellent. I do find games that require multiple playthroughs to obtain 1000 to be more entertaining, especially if each playthrough needs to be with a different play style. One playthrough as a warrior and an one = boring. One playthough as a warrior and an mage = . I trust you guys know better than me what you're doing, anyway, so keep up the great work! February 5, 2008 3:16 PM
	bibblessss said: i love the idea of hidden achivements, its a shame that you can't make them secret. is it possible that you could give us the option to hide the achivements? or maybe show all the achivements after the player has beaten the game? also, it would be greatly appricated if you did not hide the collectable items in the smallest cave in the farthest corner of the world. just a thought. February 5, 2008 11:31 PM
	SfK-Pyro said: Oh you guys know that PM is gonna push a double stab achievement, you all saw how excited he was about it during the combat demo but I have to agree on the whole, dont put / achievements because I do honestly change my gameplay to get the achievement, it doesnt even matter, but I really like getting those points and showing off how absolutley nerdy I am... hah... February 5, 2008 11:40 PM
	mcpaddyb said: morality sounds . but there is nothing wrong with having 3 achievements for maxing each skill February 6, 2008 2:00 PM
	sukhraj said: when can we expect a releas date sory 4 the spelling February 6, 2008 4:30 PM
	SHannaraHaus3 said: since u guys played through the game will it be out before fall February 6, 2008 10:03 PM
	Shisou said: [:thumbup:] February 6, 2008 10:45 PM
	AvianAzure said: Actually i like your idea for the secret achievemnts. Making it so that you have to talk to people to find them out. gives the game a, what i think would be much more like its style. So sad that a lot of gamers are actually focusing on achievments like that however February 7, 2008 12:42 PM
	dweebfactor5 said: Here's something I'd really like to see in more games, something that counts certain things for you on the collecting achievements. If I have to collect X number of items I don't want to pause the game and write in a notebook just so I won't forget. HL Orange Box did that really well. If you had to collect 45 lamda caches, it popped up and let you know what you'd done. Mass Effects main mistake was that it controlled how you played. What if I don't WANT to play with certain ally's? I paid $60, let me play the game the way I WANT TO PLAY. Just make sure the achievements are fun, rewarding, challenging, BUT NOT CONTROLLING! It's my game let me play it my way. February 7, 2008 4:46 PM
	Lord_Terrible said: Put in my two cents [url=http://community.lionhead.com/forums/2848533/ShowThread.aspx#2848533]here[/url]. February 9, 2008 8:23 AM
	whiteratprime said: I am not sure about the meta achievements. But it would make the player feel the full aspect of the game. I have two accounts on fable tlc. One for and one for . I hate it when, for example, in skate you had to go online for achievements. At that moment in time I didn't have xbox live and it really annoyed me that MS expected me to pay for Gold to gain achievements. Secret achievements should be minimal with large amounts of points. I don't really want to see an achievement for maxing out certain skills etc as I would like my Character to be fine tuned to how I like them to keep the game interesting and not too easy when you hit a certain point. Another achievement process in games I saw was being rewarded for using certain objects you would come across anyway. I didn't see the point in that. You should achieve the achievements if that makes sense. For example in COD4 there was an achievement to save a team mate from being stabbed or beaten by a dog. one of the two. can't remember. But that is the sort of things I would like to see more of. February 9, 2008 3:23 PM
	Hollo13 said: I do like the idea of all secrets but i think that it would be to hard and boring after a while to get them. i think that gears of war has had the best achievements so far i releally enjoyed playing that, i would like to see some achievements as secrets wer u have to ask villages about certain things. i dnt realy like having to collect things unless u are rewarded in tha game for doing it like cog tags on gow they wer gd but after a while it wasnt a piont to getting them they didnt help you in game. but enough of all that i think that as long as the game is fun and achievements are a bit of a challenge (but nt like seriously on gow lol) then i think achievements dnt realy matter bioshock was gd for achievements, i think that ppl dnt wont to be told what to do by the achievement but achievements can be gd to make ppl explore the world of fable but rewards are needed within game so say u get an achievement for finding ur 10 out of 50 spell books you should unlock some sort of spell so it gives the player a piont to try and get these books rather than just for achievements February 9, 2008 4:23 PM
	Hollo13 said: online achievements are also needed something like ur dog played with ur friends do achievement unlocked also i would say that it would be gd to keep story achievements secret so the story line isnt given away after reading an achievement lik on bioshock wer it sed kill ryan dat reked it a bit but all other little achievments like collecting things combat things which i like ur ideas that u wer saying jib off 100kills and instead do something like double kill wit one hit or hit ur enemies head of a wall WAT EVER THE ACHIEVMENTS ARE DONT DO THIS GIVE US 32PIONTS OR 4 PIONTS THAT REALLY ANNOYED ME ON FORZA MOTORSPORT I GOT 2 IT LOOKS STUPID JUST ROUND IT UP TO FIVE OR JUST DONT DO IT PLZ ! February 9, 2008 4:29 PM
	Tarison said: I'll be the dissenting voice here, and say I loved how Mass Effect did things. Granted, I'm a huge fan of Bioware, so am used to doing multiple playthroughs (, , and then the odd ones), just to see how things go. Also loved the bonuses it gave, as a little incentive beyond the mere bragging rights that most games do with their achievements. I guess it depends on the approach taken to the game itself. February 13, 2008 10:01 PM
	Bl0ndeYet1 said: i liked the achievements on mass effect (the ones that i have) filling the codex and having to complete it noumerous times doing the same thing over and over is a real drag though, i tried the fist time i played but missed something and now its just too repetative-with the slow talking-i like being able to skip to what the person next says after ive read what he/she is going to say on the subtitles. I think its best when you just let us carry on playing after the last boss or whatever-like oblivion- not like mass effect or two worlds ohh yeah is one of the funny achievements for sleeping with so many people that would be funny, for example (matress king or all night long) February 15, 2008 3:11 PM
	thefurie said: I'm with Tarison on this one. The bonuses you got with achievements in Mass Effect made me replay to go after them all more than any other game has. Extra skills to start out with, bonus experience for every kill and extra damage may not seem like much but the extra weapons available in shops certainly do. With a Fable twist and adding simulation parts they could add so much more replay value to the game. February 17, 2008 7:15 PM
	MAX1MISE said: Also a fan of how Mass Effect did things, I had enough self control to play the way I wanted the first time through and found the "Grind" based achievements actually came very naturally, they can be cheated but most get awarded as you progress. It's only a grind if you have to go out of your way to kill so many enemies. Getting in-game bonuses for achievements in Mass Effect was brilliant. I am not much of a Score Whore but I am on my way too 1000 points with M.E. simply to maximise my next character's playthrough. Unlocks really drive the RPers mind and fires us up to get the most out of a game systems replay value and if they are tangable benefits (not just unlockable costumes and trinkets, bleh) it would speak well for any RPG. Having an achievement based on becoming owner of most of the buildings in Albion (Or Emperor/King) would be a status symbol for sure (unless of course its fairly easy to buy up Albion?). On that note it would be interesting to have achievements based on Titles that take some effort to earn. And I am very much in favour of having a ton of Simulation and Exploration based achievements. Even without any achievement incentive I tend to want to explore/unlock everything in a game, getting points for it would be a much appreciated bonus. Please keep the Pub Game/XBLA achievements seperate too, now that we know they are available outside of the main game. I don't want to earn the same achievement twice. February 21, 2008 11:45 AM
	kotarski said: This is a little off topic but i hate rich kids who go out buy all the 360 games get about 50 gamerscore on each one but end up with 25000 gamerscore I have eight games max gamerscore of 8500 and i have 7500 if i get a game i want to be able to really commit to it and get rewarded can you guys garuntee (i cant spell) this.... well can you? March 1, 2008 6:01 PM
	Atalanto said: About secret achievements i have to say i really dont like them that much EXEPT for in Bioshock. I think that the Irony achievement was brillient. (Take a picture of Sander Cohens dead corpse) That was truly awsome, and a suprise (i didnt look it up). So secret acheivements like that in fable, i wouldnt mind. March 4, 2008 2:31 PM
	kingoftheives17 said: make them real hard like nesr secret even though it tells you what to do make them realy unspecific so u wont fully understand until you have beat the game .tell us about the personality of a person involved in an acheivement rather than nameing them say stuff like-betray your 'big' freind and once the player sees him / her the player will know that x is a huge guy and kill him March 14, 2008 9:51 PM
	Iniquital said: I read through, and someone mentioned something about having to talk to people to learn about achievements. What an awesome idea! Ok, so your talking with the locals, at the pub, and one drunk perhaps makes a bet that you can't find his stash of amber ale, up in the mountaints. Then, this perhaps unlocks an achievement that is added to the list, and once you find it, then you could get the gamerscore. You could throw in a bunch of these, and perhaps mix in some gossip ones like a local whispering "I heard that soandso stabbed two people and pinnined both the bandit bastards into a wall!" Throwing in achievements that are unlocked by your envirenment, rather than predetermined things you see on your list of game achievements, would add much more to the game. (Of course they should all be spread throughout the world, and make sure to be creative (idea- someone mentioned something about jumping off a cliff >)) March 18, 2008 11:33 PM
	ExtremeAtheist said: Instead of boring achievment names. "Be extremly " could be replaced with " Oh hell no! Its him!" May 11, 2008 11:14 AM
	majorpinky said: Me myself have played fable 1 to the limit. I like the idea that there will be no achievments for killing 100 hobbs or something like that because they are the sort i was hoping u will not put into the game. I would like some achievments that take a while to get sort of like the Lost Odassey sort of thing like master all the skills. I would hope that u have changed the look of the and sides nothing would be worse than to buy the game and find myself going through the same look as fable 1. And just as `ExtremeAtheist` said u should not name them the same old sort u should give them very funny names and short jokes and some relating back to original fable as 90% of people buying this game will have played fable 1 in the past. Just woundering wether you can change the gender of the charecter at the start and change the look so that every time you finish the game u get a different look ,as this would add a much desired look to the game.Face mapping would be a idea as well and it would make you feel more involved knowing that ur in the game and not just a computer generated face. This is just a small thing but can u name your pet dog in the game? It would also be an improvment if the AI is made more realistic similar to assasins creed because i have followed a ai charecter on fable 1 and they just walk around and not do anything. On assasins creed they each live a individual life. I am pleased to hear from previous blogs that the story has been givin much more depth to it. Hopfully its not the same as fable 1 and its not a set path u must go on and made bigger and to look like u have more options. With much more depth and hopfully length to the story it would be amazing because nothing would be worse than to be able to finish the game over night like `Tony Hawks Underground`. I am hoping that the story lasts around 15-20 hours in length. As i have spent more than 90+ hours on `Lost Odassey` so i have the durability to play a game to a combined time of that length. Finally one major thing that would make it amazing is that we get the option to customise the armour we get ourselfs by either having a shop for customisation or being able to make our own and enchanting it like in oblivion. Your loyal fan and longtime fable gamer William Larcomebe (aka) Major Pinky May 31, 2008 9:42 PM
	zlx said: I realise this is one hell of a late comment to this post but I just watched the 6th studio diary for fable 2 and it got me thinking (im not sure why) about achievements.. I think for the morality it would be if the achievements name changed depending on how you played so for example if it was how your character was at the end of the main story line if you were generally or bad. So it everyone would get the same achievement however the name would be different depending on how you played the game, I'm not sure if its possible but I think that would be a nice idea for that. June 26, 2008 10:12 AM