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Fable 2 Development

   

Note: It is not a trailer

Published Wednesday, May 14, 2008 5:33 PM by Sam

Last night, after a long day at the Showcase Event, we found out that Kotaku had posted a video showing Fable 2. This is not a trailer and it was never intended to be released in its entirity on the internet. Kotaku has dissapointed me, yes Mike and Brian you have. Sadly enough, it did happen and the snowball effect (other sites doing what Kotaku did) was inevitable at that point. The video was intended for broadcast media to edit into filmed interviews with Peter Molyneux. It was clearly marked as such on the Microsoft PR ftp.

Let me make this clear: we decided to be honest with everyone, to show Fable 2 as it is right now, including the 5000+ bugs that are currently being fixed by the development team. The press have reacted positively to our decision to show our game warts and all. To then see this video being released with the comments from editors (like Mike) and readers ranging from downright negative to so-so, is rather dissapointing and totally out of context.

Please understand that it represents work in progress and see it for what it is: how the game looked on 7th May 2008. We promise to release a real trailer in due course. It will be interesting to compare them...

   

Comments

 

vallejowatts said:

Those guys are a bunch of chicken chasers. yup thats right, Chicken Chasers.
May 14, 2008 1:04 PM
 

DustyPod said:

Yeah I saw that on Kotaku, I knew straight away it wasn't a trailer at all, but it was an interesting watch.

Bring on the new Lionhead Video diary, Sam!
May 14, 2008 1:05 PM
 

toddquest said:

I just figured that they had a poor quality version of it. It's too short to be a trailer.
Thanks for the heads up.
I'm loving all the Pictures coming out though Big Smile [:D]
May 14, 2008 1:10 PM
 

Rapture_Tourist said:

Wow, didn't know that. But it explains why you haven't uploaded it here.

Apart from that, it explains the following sentence in the trailer, I received today:

"For use as b-roll only; do not post in its entirety"
May 14, 2008 1:15 PM
 

JTGreat said:

it was nice to see but i did wonder because of no official website thing, any way i look forward to seeing the official trailer, oh how far its come from that first trailer in 06
May 14, 2008 1:20 PM
 

TheExiledLeader said:

they never said it was a trailer just some in game footage
but yeah I'm one of the few who respect the creative process
and its great to see the game even in an incomplete stage being so playable
congrats guys
much respect
May 14, 2008 1:20 PM
 

marco161091 said:

I haven't even seen it yet.. Never heard of these kotaku guys..
May 14, 2008 1:30 PM
 

Khione said:

Hrm... they must not have understood the blatant message!

[img]http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7471/hrmxe5.gif[/img]
May 14, 2008 1:35 PM
 

Aynen said:

I saw it after reading this blog and from what I've seen I'd say there's nothing to be ashamed of from Lionhead's side, the footage looks amazing, work in progress or not.
Really, job well done I'd say.
May 14, 2008 1:35 PM
 

TheExiledLeader said:

oh BTW
same thing is up on GameTrailers.com

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/2669.html
May 14, 2008 1:44 PM
 

moonfever said:

I'm so sorry, that some people can't be trusted. I really loved what I did see. The snow is so awesome, and the sweetest little people. I have no complaints, bugs and all.
May 14, 2008 1:54 PM
 

irninjabob said:

Yeah, seriously. I don't know how this trailer could be a bad representation of the game at all! The only problem I saw was with the dog, and I knew right away that it was a bug that was surely going to be fixed. Everything else though I though looked G o o d [Good] enough to be in the final release.

To hear its only going to get better is simply amazing.
May 14, 2008 1:55 PM
 

OzCool said:

nothing  was really shown other than what we've seen before aside from the opening sparrow scene and maybe a few outfits/armor. they didnt do a terrible thing. plus i think it looked great. dont be too hard on them because they must be as excited as we are.(video diary 6) cant wait to play fable 2. plus i have one question. is it coming out christmas because of what peter said in the interview or what it said on my xbox live "COMING HOLIDAY 2008". because i dont know about anyone else but thats incinuation if i've ever heard it!
May 14, 2008 2:05 PM
 

Swigsta said:

i agree, there were a few glitches in there but even with that it was still amazingly G o o d [Good]. G o o d [Good] job lionhead!

GIVE US THE NEXT VIDEO DIARY!!
May 14, 2008 2:06 PM
 

nasos_33333 said:

I just hope the new video looks like the screenshots, the kotaky video looked very emtpy in environments, and medicore colors/lighting, while pics are the best thing i have seen

So, hope the pics are for real, and how the actual game looks

BTW where is Video Diary #6 ? I have been checking for nearly a month now for it, and still nothing
May 14, 2008 2:17 PM
 

Aynen said:

About the dog running around like that, it's kind of what I would expect a dog to do in a combat situation. Ever played soccer and had a dog in the field? It will run randomly from person to person making no sense in particular.
May 14, 2008 2:46 PM
 

whiteratprime said:

It wasn't that much apart from the city at the beginning. But don't be too bummed out about it. People are taking into consideration that it is still in the making and that there is still work to do, but even with that. It looks awesome and I honestly cant wait. I will be checking back countless times for vd6.
Hope it comes soon, but dont rush it. It needs to be perfect.
May 14, 2008 2:53 PM
 

cantwaittillautmnlol said:

hmm maybe im blind or something but i didnt see anything wrong with the "non- trailer" it looked G o o d [Good]... and I hope it doesnt come out in dec. bc where im from in the united states the leaves turn brownish late sept.- oct. But G o o d [Good] job you guys!!
May 14, 2008 2:53 PM
 

OblivionProphecy said:

Im with Vallejawotts on this, there all Chicken Chasers. And please note that not all of us are like that. Most of us over here know how you were simply being honest with current bugs and things, and to take your nice release of new clips and turn it into a negative is fucked up. We all still have faith.
May 14, 2008 3:15 PM
 

Raiyell said:

Wow some people are idiots...not only do they violate the rules, but then they bash it like that?  I saw the video and the only thing I saw that should be fixed was the dog freaking out in the first battle sequence.  If the game was released like that, I'd be happy!
May 14, 2008 3:18 PM
 

STXFilmsII said:

One of the many reasons I do not read Kotaku.
May 14, 2008 3:20 PM
 

VanDaal said:

I've seen it and I can say that de game isn't ready yet, still it already looked beautifull and I'm happy you kept the music the same Wink [;)]... Still, Video Diary 6 is the short film that will have a bigger impact in my opinion, and ofcourse the game itself when it will be released will be get the final judging Wink [;)]...
May 14, 2008 3:22 PM
 

Hempinbubbler said:

Wow that clip was sweet looking bugs and all i just wish you guys would release more on the game.....but i love what i saw and every thing i have seen so far keep it up, no matter what you will be getting my money!
May 14, 2008 3:27 PM
 

dirt410 said:

bummer..still awesome though. i'm geeking out just waiting for the sixth video diary
May 14, 2008 3:44 PM
 

chucknorriz said:

yea i could see some little glitches but the game looks sweet. I love the fact u guys kept the music the same can't wait till diary #6 Smily [:)]
May 14, 2008 3:46 PM
 

twelthdoctor said:

They're media. If they get a bit on something people are hungry for, they will put it out to get recognition, whether or not they were supposed to.  Aside from the dog bit, it looked fine as an internet clip.  It was obviously not intended for release as itself; the clips were meant to underscore talking points- combat, world size, artistry/emotion, etc. It did look great, though.
May 14, 2008 3:57 PM
 

troydominice said:

I say we drag them out into the street use a a rugally knfie and slowly cut skin from their forarms off and just so they do not bleed all over the place we use hot tar, then repeat until we are more happy with their suffering for the pettey shame.
May 14, 2008 4:30 PM
 

MasterDarkharma said:

I didnt think it was a trailer either. Just some in game stuff. And like everybody else posting here though it looked sweet.
May 14, 2008 4:32 PM
 

mcpaddyb said:

Bowerstone in that video is rediculously big. Bigger than the Imperial City by miles. Axes comfirmed as well, very G o o d [Good].
May 14, 2008 4:41 PM
 

Kameo_Fanboy said:

awe c'mon Sam the response really wasn't nearly as bad as you make it seem. I thought the reaction was generally positive.  Kotaku isn't the only one who posted this video too, so I mean it's not really that fair to call them out when various sites on the net has psoted the same video.
May 14, 2008 4:47 PM
 

eobaggs said:

G o o d [Good] to hear, I got a G o o d [Good] laugh out of that dog bug.  Stick out tongue [:P]
May 14, 2008 5:12 PM
 

chucknorriz said:

The pink dog i loved that one when i heard it
May 14, 2008 5:22 PM
 

chucknorriz said:

i don't that was a trailer either more of an inside game video of what it is going to look like.
May 14, 2008 5:25 PM
 

deliriousstudios said:

@Kameo_Fanboy
Sam actually states in his post other sites started posting the video after Kotaku.
I think he's more annoyed that it was explicitly stated that this should not be released in full, but they went and did it anyway.

I've read many of the responses to it too and whilst yes, there are many positive, there are still plenty that think this is how the game is going to be and that effects the games reputation.
May 14, 2008 5:29 PM
 

SHannaraHaus3 said:

i thought it was cool
G o o d [Good] work lionhead Smily [:)]
May 14, 2008 5:45 PM
 

kotarski said:

Im gonna buy and love the game whatever so....

WHO THE HELL CARES!
May 14, 2008 5:50 PM
 

satansmunchkin said:

Why do people have to be such morons? I mean seriously, they see a game that is still in development and then start posting nonsense about it? I can understand speculation etc etc, all games have certain skepticism surrounding them, and the bigger the game the more skeptical people are. However to actually pass comment on a game before its release as if the game was in a finished state is so far beyond the realms of stupidity that really all I can think to say is ... fail.

Personally I think that the game is looking great so far. Up [:up:]

May 14, 2008 6:14 PM
 

chucknorriz said:

yea so is the game pretty much done or you guys still working on it i no there r a lot of bugs with it right now. From what i am guessing the game it self is pretty much done i read on ign.com that there is like over 5000 bugs and I'm guessing thats going to take a while thats what i read on ign I'm not sure if thats true.
May 14, 2008 6:43 PM
 

thefurie said:

Just don't give them anything else. Let them have to visit other sites to learn about the RPG event of the year. Either that or moon a video camera for a few seconds in the middle of each video you send them.
May 14, 2008 6:44 PM
 

patiodev said:

Congrats to all at lionhead! Well done on the work so far. Sam, never mind people can be stupid sometimes. The game looks G o o d [Good]. Thanks for the diaries etc.

May 14, 2008 6:58 PM
 

ErodeTheSoul said:

A majority of the people know that the video was a WIP. Most of the comments I saw indicated that the video didn't show the game in its "true light" and that it was a low blow Kotaku tried to play. Don't worry; you certainly didn't lose a customer here.
May 14, 2008 10:25 PM
 

november_17th said:



I'm sorry Kotaku did that, but I dig that beginning cut scene.
May 14, 2008 11:12 PM
 

kingtiger287 said:

never heard of them. i went to their website to see it, and i don't. unless its that 34 second video that shows almost nothing
May 14, 2008 11:34 PM
 

x8xBERSERKERx8x said:

Lol that guy fell in whe well Stick out tongue [:P]
May 15, 2008 1:49 AM
 

wordsarecool said:

**attempts to use reverse pshycology** its ok we dont want the next video diary
May 15, 2008 1:55 AM
 

kirbyeatsyou said:

I thought the non-trailer looked amazing. G o o d [Good] to hear nice variation of the Fable 1 music.
May 15, 2008 2:37 AM
 

Piranacon said:

I think the team, should be proud of whats on show, yes there are a few warts, but other than that it looks G o o d [Good], real G o o d [Good] in fact. To me it made a refreshing change to see the warts.
May 15, 2008 5:17 AM
 

Fuzzen said:

Amazingly stupid of them to post the video if you didn`t intend for it to be shown!
And the things they wrote about the movie made it sound stupid, which I am sure of is not a fact Big Smile [:D]
And which game doesn`t have bugs in a "not-finished-phase"..

Looking forward to the game, gonna be awesome Big Smile [:D]
May 15, 2008 9:33 AM
 

Onikage36 said:

I was disappointed at the reviews they were given based on the video myself. How ignorant is it too look at something thats not complete and then make a judgment call based on an unfinish product.
May 15, 2008 9:39 AM
 

ghostyspade said:

It looks great, even in unfinished state Smily [:)]
May 15, 2008 10:35 AM
 

bryanrod24 said:

the video seems like a nice way to get people excited,  no matter what others say, everyone knows its going to be nothing but amazing, and way better than GTA 4 which was completely disappointing, anyway the music on that showcase vid is really nice!
lionhead should release some downloadable G o o d [Good]ies for the xbox market place like more themes or gamer pics, etc to get people more excited!
May 15, 2008 11:26 AM
 

OzCool said:

Team xbox says fable 2 is slated for this august? how true is that?
May 15, 2008 11:50 AM
 

wrongfire said:

I thought what i saw was great.

2 things bugged me though.

The clouds right after the overview of bowerstone. And the swinging axe animation.

Otherwise everything looks fantastic.
May 15, 2008 2:48 PM
 

Orakaius said:

Can't wait for that official trailer Stick out tongue [:P]
May 15, 2008 3:12 PM
 

talktogastong said:

thats it... im gunna go hibernate through out the summer so that when the game comes out ill be able to play until next summer... okay fine ill wait till video diary 6 then hibernate
May 15, 2008 3:35 PM
 

chucknorriz said:

From what i saw was amazing that how much it changed but yet i don't think that if u guys didn't want them to release the video they shouldn't have done it. But the video was very G o o d [Good] indeed it made me want to get this game really soon. I love playing fable i just beat the game again last night for like the 100th time last night an now started a new profile and this one hes going to be E v i l [Evil]. Keep up the G o o d [Good] work Smily [:)]
May 15, 2008 3:50 PM
 

Mathew_01 said:

Looking forward to the official trailer now, and the new diary Smily [:)]
May 15, 2008 4:49 PM
 

SternFirstBorn said:

The video did not look bad at all.
I don't see what all the fuss is about.
May 15, 2008 5:15 PM
 

shadowc35 said:

foolish fools making such foolish attempts into influenceing us into there foolishly foolish thought up ways
May 15, 2008 6:11 PM
 

shadowc35 said:

what is the video anyways can any1 give me the url
May 15, 2008 6:35 PM
 

nasos_33333 said:

The video did not look bad, but comparing to the pics, looked empty and with strange lighitng
May 15, 2008 6:44 PM
 

greenghost5 said:

I watched in HD on Gametrailers. I could tell that the very frist part was the opening to Fable 2 and it looked awesome. All of the other stuff looked really G o o d [Good] too, but we know it'll look even better.

And Sam you should know how the media is no matter what industry they're in they'll find a way to put things out there even when they aren't allowed. Even it says not to in big letters. They do it anyways. And for what? So that they can get hits or whatever.  But I will say that I am glad that Lionhead is taking this route and showing this stuff in action by doing that it shows not only us here, but others that Peter and Lionhead will deliver this time.
May 16, 2008 12:08 AM
 

beautifulDesign said:

The clip looked great, the part with the dog was too short too even make a fuss about, and overall I don't believe their is anything to worry about as far as the video degrading the game's image. Keep up the work.
May 16, 2008 8:12 AM
 

Hobsik said:

I liked it, especially the part where the bandit falls into the well.
May 16, 2008 12:39 PM
 

madferrit said:

it all looked great and i cant wait to c the real trailer if its even better, but when is the bideo diary comin out, its bin three weeks sinse i heard rumour of it lol??
May 16, 2008 3:03 PM
 

chucknorriz said:

yea wheres the big surprise that u were going to have for us u said there was going to be one about 2-3 weeks ago
May 16, 2008 3:30 PM
 

will1066 said:

First of all, I thought the not-a-trailer was pretty darn G o o d [Good]. Sure, it could use a bit of work, but I would be happy if we got the same game as the first one with just a couple of the new features thrown in, so I think this will be tremendous. Really, Sam, it looked great even for a game in the making. Yeh, it needs some work, but that's cool. We would rather you guys put the work in now and have a great game in a few more months, but this waiting is killing me.

Second, was the big surprise the release of the box design? Cuz that's not really uber impressive. I hope it's some other bit of news or the release of the Arcade mini games. That would be grand! Anyway, keep up the amazing work, guys!
May 16, 2008 7:08 PM
 

mikeofblades said:

I thought the vid was G o o d [Good] to watch. Another one in the bag to help me cope with my waiting.Wink [;)]
May 17, 2008 7:08 AM
 

t0astandjam said:

I thought it was G o o d [Good] Stick out tongue [:P]. I wasn't around for the hype before the first fable, but I would buy fable 2 even if just for the graphics not to mention the gameplay. I understand your concern about losing customers because this was posted and it wasn't completed, but you certainly won't lose me that easily Smily [:)].

And speaking of trailers, when can we see the real one? Surprise [:O]
May 17, 2008 9:35 AM
 

cantwaitforfable2 said:

i thought it was G o o d [Good] too. especialy the part with the eagle and you see bowerstone. (that is one big city!) i just keep replaying that bit becuase its so awsome!
May 17, 2008 3:46 PM
 

GonePearShaped said:

*whines* Now I REALLY wanna see the opening cinematic! ;.; It looks really G o o d [Good], and I can't wait to play it! You guys are gonna announce a release date soon, right? ^^; Ahh well... I can still be hopeful
May 17, 2008 4:28 PM
 

FableFORVER said:

Personloy i cant spell but really i loved it but then again i love everything fable
May 18, 2008 7:39 PM
 

FableFORVER said:

Personloy i cant spell but really i loved it but then again i love everything fable
May 18, 2008 7:40 PM
 

bafle said:

Man...I've known some arsefaces in my days, but man, that just widens the crack, if you catch my meaning.
May 19, 2008 12:30 AM
 

bafle said:

Man...I've known some arsefaces in my days, but man, that just widens the crack, if you catch my meaning.
May 19, 2008 12:30 AM
 

Reonoir said:

the bandit in the well makes me wonder whether theres anything at the bottom of the well to explore... And if we can actually go down the well, will we see the all the dead bodies at the bottom that we pushed into the well, like the bandit
May 19, 2008 5:35 AM
 

madferrit said:

it did look reli gd, but im still waiting for the new video diary, those microsoft people hav had it for a while.
May 19, 2008 5:22 PM
 

fablerockshard said:

it did look really G o o d [Good] so there is no need to worry but madferrit is right microsoft has had that video diary forever why would it take so long for them to put it out there
May 19, 2008 10:04 PM
 

turkey_of_doom said:

I thought it looked okay, but, damn Kotaku damn them to hell staining Fable 2! I cannot waith for Fable 2 -bangs head off desk-
May 20, 2008 12:48 PM
 

miaumix said:

Very G o o d [Good] video. I think the game will be very interesting.

Привет всем русским в Linohead Wink [;)]
May 20, 2008 3:06 PM
 

joevsyou said:

wow whats up with the video dairy? been over 2 weeks? no news from  microsoft?
May 21, 2008 4:38 PM
 

Razerblade99 said:

the "trailer" was G o o d [Good] but it was 2 short so i knew it couldn't be a trailer. Stick out tongue [:P]
May 22, 2008 9:10 AM
 

madferrit said:

its bin over three weeks since u finished the video diary now, wat r they doing with it?
May 23, 2008 7:56 AM
 

stu_fargher said:

the non-trailer looked great. I mean... the bugs were there.. but oh well. still.. like the masses have been saying.. the next video diary would be really nice to see.
May 23, 2008 3:47 PM
 

Mailrobot said:

What bugs were there in the video? I mean...for me a bug is something wrong in the game mechanic, like getting stuck on a rock.

For what its worth, for me the video looked great. I dont see anything wrong with it.
May 23, 2008 6:06 PM
 

QX34Z said:

I agree with Mailrobot... where were the bugs?  

I think the camera view was at much to wide of an angle to see any bugs... we need a view from a macro lens or microscope to see that small.

However, the dog was moving rapidly back and forth which leads one to believe that it possibly has fleas... hence, the bugs.

Very clever Lionhead..!
May 23, 2008 11:58 PM
 

MadFoot said:

looks great. can't wait. (wow that kinda rhymes...)

but whats up with the dev. dairy? im starting to think its not coming... please post it soon!
May 24, 2008 10:04 PM
 

abc_gum06 said:

wow...the only thing beef b/w yall and kotaku is gonna do is create tension for more media to latch onto so that more pple will hear bout the game...aaaaand  there is no such thing as bad publicity even if every one says the video is the most goshawful thing theyve ever seen in their lives (which it wasnt!) pple will still wanna check tha thing out to make sure...so come out with that sixth video and show those losers whats up!!
May 25, 2008 11:16 PM
 

rhicks83 said:

Fable The Lost Chapters Frackin Rocked so there is no doubt in my mind that Fable 2 will Super Frackin Rock!  We may just have to buy 2 copies and an additional XBox so that the wife (Which stole the XBox for a Month with Fable The Lost Chapters) and I may play together or @ the same time.  Keep up the G o o d [Good] work and don't release until it is perfect.  Patiently awaiting the Master Piece.
May 26, 2008 3:44 AM
 

Patrick913king said:

I CANT WAIT TILL THIS COMES OUT
AND WHY IS IT TAKEN THEM SO LONG TO POST A NEW ONE??
May 26, 2008 9:54 PM
 

stu_fargher said:

About those bugs... my bad. there were some problems on my end when I watched it the first time... seemed like bugs.. had more to do with the streaming on my end than bugs on the.. other end... so yeah. my apologies to Fable 2 for thinking I saw bugs when I didn't see bugs... my bad.
May 27, 2008 1:05 AM
 

QX34Z said:

abc_gum brings up a G o o d [Good] point; any publicity is G o o d [Good] publicity!  Which brings up a question I have, What is up with the marketing for fable 2?  Maybe I haven't watched the right programs on TV to see advertisements for the game or maybe I haven't read the right magazines but it just seems that the marketing/advertising has been minimal.  I heard of the game through "word-of-mouth" and I wonder if that is the approach Lionhead/Microsoft is taking.  This game has the potential to be right up there with the highest profiting opening week like GTA but I think there needs to be specifically television advertisements to bring in the mass public.  GTA seemed to benefit greatly from it.
May 27, 2008 11:45 AM
 

Kraut_Robber said:

http://majornelson.com/archive/2008/05/22/see-preview-of-fable-2-right-now.aspx

Hell, I mist it Sad [:(]
May 27, 2008 12:31 PM
 

abc_gum06 said:

yes i was also curious about the lack of advertising...maybe they're waiting until a little closer to the release date. because i saw a few comercials a couple months ago but then no more. hmmm maybe they dont want to wear out the novelty too soon...most people arent willing to be obsessed about a video game for two years ...but maybe two months...they'll probobly start advertising hardcore after the release date comes out. those first few comercials were probably just to get the word out
May 27, 2008 5:33 PM
 

Patrick913king said:

yea i agree with abc bout advertising

but i got a question you know how like before the game comes out their gonna have the pub and in the pub you can make money for your fable 2 character
well do you think that game is gonna cost money or free
and what if you use all your money you start with do you got to buy more money or what???
May 28, 2008 10:33 AM
 

Kraut_Robber said:

I'd bet the game'll cost 400 or 800 ms points, although I'd wish it to be for free for pre orderers.
May 28, 2008 1:15 PM
 

bannostookaylo said:

yeah im ready for video diary 6... im tired of reading the same news articles and blogs everyday at work haha... I NEED MORE!!!!!
May 28, 2008 5:46 PM
 

QX34Z said:

Given the length of time it is taking for video diary 6 to be released, I'd hope video diary 7 is being worked on Smily [:)]  If it takes 4 weeks for the videos to make it through the microsoft red tape, then lets go.  I'm sure Sam enjoys all of the demands we place on him.  hahah
May 29, 2008 11:23 AM
 

Mongrel11 said:

ya this is getting pretty pathetic...are the guys over at microsoft on holidays or what.sam should have added another couple weeks onto that "just to be on the safe side"...you have to wonder if the are waiting to release it for a reason. maybe they will drop the release date bomb with it as well...heres to hopeful thinking.
May 29, 2008 12:56 PM
 

ChrisTheProdigy said:

how about that video diary anytime soon?!
May 29, 2008 7:51 PM
 

MadFoot said:

holy marry, mother of jesus! whats with the video diary!? its been like 5 weeks since you sibmited it! please post it on the site!

btw, i was looking at the screenshots. they are amazing! the enviroment looks awsome. for a second i thought the trees where real.

p.s. give us Video Diary 6!
June 3, 2008 1:19 PM
 

thejake1233 said:

I wag my finger in shame at Kotaku.
June 22, 2008 2:06 PM
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About Sam

Well...a boy was born back in 1981 and it all went crazy from there...Joined the Lionhead Community in 1998 and am here to look after everyone. If you need help, feel free to give me a shout. I'm not "technical support"!

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