well from my point of view the co-op is everything you said it would be, you always stated co-op would have the guest as a henchman so I can't quite wrap my head round why a lot of people are treating it like a huge shock, but I suppose people always need something to complain about!

ehh...people will still want the whole hero thing, I mean you could just have the character join in but not have the famouness affect things...well whatever ya have to do.

I agree.  I was under the impression couch-cooperative would only include henchmen, but that online co-op would allow you to bring in a hero.  I specifically recall a segment where molyneux stated that the dog could not be imported.  Well, the dog is a part of the hero, not the henchman.

First off let me say thank you for an awsome single player experaince. Second let me state that even though Fable 2 is well done, it is in fact very truely broken! In a gaming society filled with FPS games and MMOs Fable 2's co-op is taking a huge leap back in time to the days where co-op was first being seen in the world of gaming.  Thats not cool, I totaly understand now that this game was rushed and if you guys had a little more time or maybe listened to the voices of your fans the co-op would have been better.  There are many ways to make it fun but the lack of being able to buy stuff as a henchmen or use more advanced emotes is pretty sad. I truely feel let down by the co-op but hey I guess thats why I pay blizzard 15 bucks a month, so I can have a truely epic co-op/multi player experaince. Insted of feeling like I just spent 70 bucks to trade things back and forth with my friends orbs(EPIC FAIL).  Sticky cams are so early 90s! Love the ART and the STORY it makes me feel like I am diving into new world but that world feels empty knowing that I could bring a friend in if the cam and lack of thing didnt prohibit me from doing so.  So thank you Lionhead for taking the time to make a truely great feeling world with awsome art, great voice acting, and a lovely story.  But take a look at the co-op/multi player power house studios before trying to step into a yard you are clearly not used to.  I think you could learn well from companies like Blizzard/Epic/Bungie/Activision.

I do not think people are annnoyed by the fact that their characters are not treated as heroes, but that their appearance, or even items are not moved over. I do not understand why you could not be a henchman while still having the appearance of your hero. The henchman does not really look all that different from another hero, and they already get all of the abilities. It is an interesting addition, but at least for me, the reasons do not feel enough to justify it.

what was the problem using a coop  style like that of grand theft auto 4 ??? not to mention what is up with the camera??? try battling a troll when you have to attack its back side and your locked into one camera view. it was very irritating but we were able to defeat it and move on. but that whole incident seriously disgusted me about the co op. but i guess its too late to do anything about it now.

I agree completely that the guest player should simply act as an extension of the main character, however, showing off the look of your character is part of the fun of any multi-player RPG experience.  I would like to request, if possible, that lionhead eventually make a patch which allows the guest player to show up as they look in their own game.

The Co-op camera is truly horrendous and needs to be fixed somehow.  I understand that part of the reason for the camera to be fixed is to keep players in the same vicinity in a giant world.  I think a game that accomplished this in an interesting way was Mercenaries 2.  In Mercs 2 there is an area that the co-op player can stay within.  Going further out kills the co-op player.  A goo compromise I can see in fable would be to automatically warp the guest to the main player if they get too far apart.  This way you could allow both players to have camera control, while still forcing them to be in the same area.

I understand that what I am asking is probably a ton of work, we as gamers often don't realize how much time goes into programming things that seem so small, but these enhancements would greatly improve my overall Fable 2 experience.

Otherwise the game is fantastic(though some more clothing and weapons would be nice too, and perhaps a performance patch for the menus).  Thank you for keeping the unique visual style, it's gorgeous and refreshing.

Thanks again,
James

Dene, why does having a Hero matter when you've eliminated NPC interaction with the henchman anyways?? My friend jumped in a game the other day and couldn't buy anything, so if you can turn off his interaction, why not reverse that and cancel out NPC interactions/dialogue towards the second Hero??

Also, the camera is absolutely atrocious...It really is a terrible mechanic online...Offline, I totally understand the reasoning, but playing online with a fixed camera is truly a horrible situation...

Alot of things get reduced with this camera issue...Not only do you limit the moveset of ranged players, but you limit ability to flank monsters which I think would be a cool thing...It's almost as if you are forced to run in LITERALLY with guns and swords blazing, when in fact you have skills to approach the situation differently...

What I don't get is, if the game is loaded by regions, then why can't you both be free roaming in the same region?? If the second Hero or Henchman comes to a loading section, that Hero or Henchman can't advance without the main Hero initiating the advancement...Seems logical to me, the persons world you're in, is the one who dictates where you go...Once you're there, you are completely able to go where you please until the Main Hero changes it...

Also, I have a tough time joining games in progress, I need invites to even play with a friend, not sure if you guys ran into this problem, but it's occurs quite frequently with my friends and I...

Honestly, the way the Co-Op is currently, is disappointing to say the least...I really hope you guys listen to the reviewers and the gamers and change this stuff...It's not just like one person out of a million are unhappy, everyone I talk to about the game loves it, except for the henchman and camera, so basically the whole online setup...

i hope a patch comes out making it so you can see the actaul henchman

I agree with the other comments, why can't the second player look like his/her hero but just have the environment react to you as a henchmen? Works for me.

I think most of the arguments for the co-op feature are based on the assumption that you're playing with someone who shares your goals. My friends and random acquaintances over xbox live are unfortunately not so willing. We find ourselves consistently unable to agree about places to go, or activities to complete.

Having someone along is almost detrimental, wandering in any direction with their weapon drawn and making it difficult to enjoy the experience. (Yes, my friend thinks it's funny to do this every time I let him join, your own development videos mentions people can't resist causing mayhem)

I'm aware the game is release and it doesn't make any sense to revisit the camera 'functionality' but I want to express how disappointed we were with the so called 'co-op'. We agreed we would play the game single player to avoid hearing each other complain. Instead of creating a fantastic game you've delivered something much less appealing.

PS. It's a wonderful game, keep up the work everyone except people on the co-op development team.

PPS. Please print 10000 copies of this note, shred it and put it in the co-op developer's cubicle for a giggle. He'll love it, trust me.

Cheers!

The co-op makes me want to cry.

Can anyone please tell me if your henchman gets scarred, or you gain / points as a henchman, will those points/effects transfer to your real hero?

this is in response to dontcountstars' remark.

People are complaining because they at least wanted to show off their individuality look of their character.  That was why lionhead made it so that clothing/armor didn't add any defensive value.  The point was to look different and it doesn't matter if my character is considered, by title, a henchmen when I enter my friend's world..  That doesn't matter to me.  What matters is I still get to show off how goofy or how serious my character looks.  Aside from that all, the co-op camera system sucks horribly.  I was very disappointed that none of my friends are utilizing the co-op because everyone wants to show their stuff off.  I understand not being able to do certain things quest wise but the henchmen should have enough freedom to keep it interesting..  People aren't going to use a feature unless they feel its fun enough... sadly it just isn't fun enough!  Aside from the co-op im experiencing glitches like my spell selector keeps auto setting the first 3 spells to my time control spell after almost every battle now.  I have to constantly go in and change the spell setup.  I keep getting visual glitches where my dog's collar vanishes and i can see through it.  Im getting glitches now where I cant see what im selecting while trying to socialize.. they just end up being empty circles.  Don't get me wrong..  I love fable, and fable 2 because they are both basically fun games.  I dunno what it is about them that i gravitate towards them.. maybe its the choices..  But why the disappointments?  And I will end on the note...  Ive been hacking my way through hundreds of people and I still cant grow horns like in the advertisement.. please tell me they didnt get rid of growing horns.. all i have is blue skin!  How weak!

Well as far as NPCs reacting to the second player character, I dont think people really cared about that. However, the same reactions people have towards a generic henchman, they can have about a henchman that looks like player 2's hero. People really arent complaining about the limitations player 2 has (other than not being able to gift things to them, like orbs), they are just complaining about the fact that the same thing achieved with a , neutral, or generic hench, can be done with a hench that mimic's player 2's , neutral, or hero.

Also yes GymSox, horns are still in game.

A great game but co op is horrable

teknoman.. thanks for the update... damn me!  Im having a hard time being enough haha.  Do i have to be both corrupt and or something because i eat a lot of celery to keep thin so yeah..  Sorry about the rant for the horns.  Fable 2 is still a fun game though..  I just was expecting more out of what we got.  Maybe its because Peter has a way of enticing and marketing his games and we have high hopes.  I think ever since the big let down from fable 1 we all expected it to be perfect, thinking that certain elements would be fixed or better.  I really dont understand, however, what was going through the minds at lionhead when they made co-op the way they did.. i mean come on!  I wanna strut my stuff!  I do appreciate the blood sweat and tears the dev team has endured to try to create an epic game.  I think if Lionhead does some serious patching on this game I am sure opinions would change and IGN and other game rating sites might re-rate the product.  Please patch things up for us fans Lionhead

Honestly, I agree.  The camera is garbage.  I'm sure novice programming that make mods for PC games could make a better one for co-op.  With little talent I have in C++, I could write a better camera.  Please fix it.

You OMGWTFPWNED that "Petition against bland henchmen" thread. work. <P> What I don't understand however is if I ply as a /Pure character then you choose the /Corrupt henchmen then you are not an extension of me at all, your my opposite. Discuss...

Towncrier: "From this day forward the Hero previously named Branks will now go by the name of Nobhead." <P> Sorry for the double post but Branks is an arrogant, ignorrant fool.

I cant seem to get co-op to work.
granted i'm only trying with one friend, and we've had trouble before...
we cant even see each others Orbs...
could it be his router?

"players found it almost impossible to decipher who an NPC comment was targeting. When thirty people are gathered around the player, there needs to be a combined, single message otherwise things get very confusing, and actively damage the feeling of “heroism”

I totally get why you want the npc "reaction" to the 2nd player to be that way, but it would be much more enjoyable if instead you could be your own character in co-op but keep the npc "reaction" the same as it already is. Also the 2nd player should be able to change his/her weapons, clothes, etc and also use their own health potions and food. With the way it currently is my friend and i have more fun being in a private chat and following each others orbs while finding gargoyles and we dont play co-op. Oh and it would be cool if any silver keys/gargoyles the 1st player finds with the 2nd player present(ones that the 2nd player didn't already have) would transfer. All of these factors would change co-op from not very engaging to really fun and awesome.

I'm not whining about the game I'm just saying what would make co-op work better.

I agree with most of these statements, and to be tottaly honest, I doubt the devs really seem to care what we think on the henchmen subject. All that has happened so far is they've played the 'You should have listened closer' and the '**** off' cards. They seem perfectly willing to help players with other matters, but for some reason continue to plug their ears and hum whenever someone brings up making a few amends to the co-op system. If they would just come out and at least make clear what is making them so hesitant to make amends, money? time? laziness? Or even concerns as to how the gaming public will recieve such changes and whether it is what they want?

Co-op is great but the camera is akward cause the henchmen needs to stay close to the hero so the camera does not jerk in one direction and the henchmen is stuck or the hero cant see where he/she is going...... IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED but still an awsome game all up

yeah game is realy nice looking , but the coop is horrible, could of been better, and got upset about not bein able to show off your own hero look in your friends world :/ i think the story upset me also, dident fell so deep and long as fable 1  , it felt short. I finished it i was like, ehh done already? And i noticed there wasent so many clothes to wear also, thought there would be hundreds of diffrent clothing.

o well, Great Game otherwise, just the coop needs to be fixed.  

The game is nearly perfect. Nice work. But PLEASE fix this horroble camera in coop mode. And that the second player can use his own charakter without his dog.
Then the coop-mode will be perfect too.
Sorry, my English is not the best! :-)

Greetings from Germany
Oberalphawolf

i can  play co-op with my friend using my character when i go to his world and that sucks i cant use my weapons.and every time i am in his world every thing is delayed for me and when he comes to my world evey thing is delayed for i think that needs to get fixed because the is no point to helping you friends kill some that already bin kill five minutes ago

but i do love the game. cant stop playing it so much to do. i just hate co-op it need more fixing

I only got Fable 2 this evening and I haven't tried co-op yet, but what I have played so far is excellent! Well worth the €50! Even if the co-op isn't great I won't be too bothered.
Oh, and I absolutely love the dog, he is so cute

Thanks so much to everybody at Lionhead who put in so much hard work to make an amazing game.

How then am I supposed to show of my smartly dressed character to other people. It's a nice theory, but no one cares. Everyone wants their own character to show up in co-op, and that's about all the facts you really need to know.

I need my cruilty vileness & corruption to trandsend to other worlds..... in other words make it so we can see each others indavidual characters & all the other stuff poeple are whining about  

I agree with most comments prior to mine, co-op camera is horrible.

And would it not be technically possible to at least have your own hero's looks replace the 'henchman' look?, lock the morphing in co-op even, i don't care at this point.

I agree with Hempinbubbler...

Fable 2 takes an unimaginable stride towards a better game developing community! I love every aspect of the game; however co-op fails to impress me. I like the direction, but not the finished product.

It's the simple things like the aiming reticules should be different colours (blue and red) it's extremely confusing when your both attempting a sniper situation and the camera is something to be desired, however this just one piece of the Pie "of Legend" (Sorry).

Fable 2 in my opinion is a masterpiece and I’ll keep on playing for a long time! If I had a chance to see any of you developers, artists, voice-acting and Peter's I would be giving you the thumps up expression and flirting with you. Congratulations, but shame about the co-op!

I believe Fable 2 could  have been the best game of all time.. if co-op was done right. 1. Control camera angle
2. Import own hero
3 More control of single player while in co-op


add those things in. a flawless game.. the single player is remarkable job on a great single player game... but I do agree a missed chance of being a once in lifetime game.

Peter tottaly failed at co-op and the main story game, i played it for 4 hours and beat it , i payed $130 preorder for it. nothing i can do with it now. BUT DW ILL JUST PLAY Co-0p WIF MY FRIENDS .. UH NU DW I CANT SEE THERE CHARCTERS N IM A STOOPID HENCHMEN.

$130 REGRET.
GJ OVERHIPYING THE GAME PETER U TARD.

Ugh, I agree with all the main complaints...
I hope that you guys release a patch to make it all better.

Crazy stuff