Sam:

Bows just don't work in Fable 2 and so, there won't be any in the final game (OK, never say never, but at the moment there won't be any bows, and if it changes, I'll let you know).

I was hoping for bows but you give some solid reasons why they won't work, so I say bring on the guns. 

 

The only way I could see bows being viable is if you gave guns/crossbows a reload time, but that might make guns and crossbows less fun.  You could fire more arrows with a standard bow, which could even out the power difference, but the enemy might still get the first shot with a gun because he doesn't have to load an arrow.  Without a time delay for guns/crossbows, bows wouldn't stand much of a chance. 

 

Thanks for the update Sam, design changes like this seem quite reasonable when you are given a reason.

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Are you an ODST (fanboy)?

Raven-of-Skorm:

Sam:

So yeah, they don't work and won't make it into Fable 2. That was my small update for the day!

 

That makes sense. Seeing as how the setting is 500 years into the future, I would imagine people would have started working with gunpowder and guns by then.

 

Bows against guns would simply not work against each other, as Sam mentioned. Not only must you have to charge up your bow, but you must aim at the target with presumably wooden arrows.

 

And here we have guns that, quite possibly, have a faster firing rate, higher accuracy (though not entirely accurate), and that shoot bullets, not wooden arrows. The speed a bullet travels would also affect the rivalry of a bow and a gun.

 

I admired bows and enjoyed using them thoroughly in Fable. It seemed very well done and such, but at times there would be the normal bandit who would hardly charge his arrow only to make your character flinch when charding up his own bow. Meaning, he would instantly aim and hit you most of the time, which made using bows somewhat tough unless you are at a safe distance.

 

We have yet to see just how guns implementations will affect the outcome for long range combat, but judging from the older videos, it seems to be doing so far. Hobbes seem to have trouble with guns.

Noone really knows for sure when gunpowder was invented, but many think it was China around 1040 A.D, they weren't seen in weapons until  1230 A.D. In 1249 A.D. europe discovered gunpowder. The battle of crecy in 1346 A.D. was the fist time gunpowder was used in europe.
Progress was slow because anyone working with gunpowder was working in the dark, as there was no chemistry yet. That changed in 1540 with the first publication "Pyrotechnia" on how to make gunpowder, the book had basic chemistry. The book was written by Vannoccio Biringuccio. The combinations that worked best were discovered early, but  not perfected until the 17th century. By the 1880s smokless gunpowder was invented, first by the Europeons, then by the Americans. Then came Blackpowder, which was easily ignited. Flintlocks used Blackpowder starting in the first half of the 19th cetury.

Flintlocks were first introduced in 1630 A.D. It remained in much common use for about two centuries.The last flintlock was the model 1840 U.S. musket.

Most of these weapons were not very accurate, however if you were hit on the battlefield, you were pretty much done. The first rifled Flitlock came about in 1500 A.D. in Germany it was used for hunting. Some Flintlocks had rifling, but most did not.It's too hard to explain here but the power of the bullet is just awesome.

So there you go, that should give you an idea about gunpowder, and how people were working with it.

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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." (Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775)

Archers are one of, if not my most favorite RP How can we take out our enemies at a distance stealthily without a bow? Are there gonna be silencers or does this mean you only get one shot before they swam you? Bows are still used today and Native American's won lots of battles against men with guns so I don't feel that guns just blow away bows. Maybe make bows better for long range combat and only use pistols for medium and short. Hopefully you guys can figure out a way to work it in.

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Thank you Ralph H. Baer

The fire rate may be slower with the bow because you have to pull it back and aim it. The game isnt going be realistic with the gun reload that would just be ridiculous. You may even get more shots off with the gun than with the bow. I like bows better but i think that you may be forced to have a gun. Hopefully bayonet...

Bayonets halberds and spears ftw.

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Ugh. Well, that kind of sucks.
But I really don't see why they wouldn't work out. Sure, a gun could go off first in a fight, but a bow could probably reload  faster, and probably do just as much damage as an early firearm(well, maybe not radial damage, like a shotgun. But still enough damage to kill someone) Longbows and/or bodkin arrows were capable of piercing well made plate armors (just read up on the Battle of Agincourt, and the Battle of Crecy)...
Fo course, AFAIK, Fable 2 isn't using a realistic combat model in ranged combat, only in melee. But still, unless LH took out F1's auto-aim and/or didn't add reload times for firearms, I don't really see why bows didn't work out... Maybe Sam's a nub with 'em?


Well, on the subject of guns, will they have some blunt melee attack? Like swinging a rifle at someone like a bat, pistol whipping, or something similar?

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OMG I <3 dis gaem guys!

I think I know the answer to my own question, but just to make sure..

Why would anyone choose a bow over a gun??

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III Things I want in Fable III:
More Magic in the World and Plot.
More diverse people in every aspect.
More Abilities in general; skill/strength/will.

Fable2CantWait:

Why would anyone choose a bow over a gun??

Becouse its safe for the environment, also did you know guns kill people every year, and was even responsible for Abraham Lincoln's  death....

Thats why people prefurre bows over guns

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Cyanide & Happiness @ Explosm.net

Yeah, but for battleing purposes.. lol

Guns are faster. Shoot farther. Stronger.

Bigger. Faster. Better. Stronger.

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III Things I want in Fable III:
More Magic in the World and Plot.
More diverse people in every aspect.
More Abilities in general; skill/strength/will.

It's for aesthetic purposes, I guess. Like Portarock said, it's kind of cool for RPs.

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OMG I <3 dis gaem guys!

Fable2CantWait:

Yeah, but for battleing purposes.. lol

Guns are faster. Shoot farther. Stronger.

Bigger. Faster. Better. Stronger.

Well thats not really true, guns will probably be made that way so they are fun in the game but in real life guns of this era were less effective than bows.  The advantage of the gun is that it can shoot first without having to load an arrow, after that it is basically useless because it needs to be packed with gunpoweder and a ball (which takes a long time).  The bow, if the archer survives the first gun shot, can keep firing an arrow every few seconds.

As for accuracy, early guns were horribly unaccurate, guns remained this way until rifling (spiraling of the barrel) was used.  This will probably be ignored too because it would make guns less fun.

If Lionhead wanted bows to work they could make them work, they just have to make it so guns can't rapid fire shoot like Peter did at GDC.  Still, bows should have a place in the game, they would work well as a stealth weapon.  You might have to take time to aim the bow but that won't matter if your enemy can't see you, but as a primary weapon in combat I can see the problems they have with bows.  Bows should still be included for assassins.

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Are you an ODST (fanboy)?

Well they could make it likes WoWs guns, OR! Make a really tricked out gun, one with 2 containers on top of it one carrying gun power and the orther balls of steel, he hits the switch to put the gun power in the gun then closes the valve then hit the balls one and they drop in after it, then click back, pull the trigger and boom!, and we now have a really fast reloading gun which fires like a shot gun so its almost gunna be impossible to miss. hows that for a gun idea for the past?

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Cyanide & Happiness @ Explosm.net

Yeah, and even personaly, i just like bows better. I just wanted to make sure that guns werent cheap as heck :D

I think they should make it so that the bow can shoot arcs, which would also be an advantage compared to the gun.

            

Like this:

You |||barrier ten feet high|||| enemy

gun cannot hit the enemy, bow can. But im not sure if the devs will add this.

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III Things I want in Fable III:
More Magic in the World and Plot.
More diverse people in every aspect.
More Abilities in general; skill/strength/will.

No bows, are you kidding me?? This is the kind of stuff I don't get...You expect casual gamers to know the intricate detailed differences between the firing power of a crossbow and a regular bow?? Like for some reason, it's still really smart to have a crossbow in the game, but a regular bow, can't be given the same damage properties as a crossbow?? REALLY??

Because, casual gamers know the differences between the two?? Because, casual gamers know the firing rate of each weapon from the 16th Century?? Because, casual gamers ALWAYS SEE MOVIES WITH CROSSBOWS IN IT, right?? Because, casual gamers are going to be informed of how great the crossbow is and that will automatically enlighten them about 16th Century weaponry, thus making them realize how ineffective bows would be, TERRIFIC!!

I love how the dev team thinks of casual gamers as sheep, THEN, dumbs the entire game down in a hardcore way of thinking, great job boys...Because I know, for myself, the subtle differences between a crossbow and a longbow really make me angry when I'm discussing it with my friends at dinner, oh boy, I sure do get mad...

So, let me ask a question in regards to all weaponry...Ummmm, it never crossed your mind that maybe it would be smart to upgrade the skills associated with the weapon?? Like, I DON'T KNOW, maybe a faster reload for bows, or maybe power increase, so pulling back the string faster and harder would result in damage almost as strong as I DON'T KNOW, a crossbow??

Seriously, this sure says alot about combat/leveling, and not in a cool way...If you think about it somehow, even with upgrades, normal weapons don't become that much better no matter what you do or how skilled you are with them... Lord this is sounding horrible...

fablier:

Fable2CantWait:

Yeah, but for battleing purposes.. lol

Guns are faster. Shoot farther. Stronger.

Bigger. Faster. Better. Stronger.

Well thats not really true, guns will probably be made that way so they are fun in the game but in real life guns of this era were less effective than bows.  The advantage of the gun is that it can shoot first without having to load an arrow, after that it is basically useless because it needs to be packed with gunpoweder and a ball (which takes a long time).  The bow, if the archer survives the first gun shot, can keep firing an arrow every few seconds.

As for accuracy, early guns were horribly unaccurate, guns remained this way until rifling (spiraling of the barrel) was used.  This will probably be ignored too because it would make guns less fun.

If Lionhead wanted bows to work they could make them work, they just have to make it so guns can't rapid fire shoot like Peter did at GDC.  Still, bows should have a place in the game, they would work well as a stealth weapon.  You might have to take time to aim the bow but that won't matter if your enemy can't see you, but as a primary weapon in combat I can see the problems they have with bows.  Bows should still be included for assassins.

Exactly. The biggest reason besides RPing and aesthetics for wanting a bow is stealth. Fable 1's stealth was servely lacking and I had hoped that Fable 2 would correct this problem but with the information that has been relased I am not to sure

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Thank you Ralph H. Baer

Alright, I'm very outraged that Longbows will NOT be in Fable 2. Bows are stealthy. An actual fact is that when the longbow was used in the Hundred Years War, They were SO much better than crossbows. They had faster reloading. All you had to do was draw an arrrow back and let go. Also, in the HYW, they were more powerful than normal crossbows. They went farther, and could pierce all but the heaviest armor. In Fable's terms, that means it can pierce everything but platemail. I really dont like why everyone underrates bows. They are . And another reason why you should keep them, is that it just adds more Medeval fantasy to the game. And Fable 2 wouldnt be very cool if it had Machine guns and muskets and gatlings and cannons, and... you get the point. The #1 reason Fable is cool is that it Was Fantasy and Medieval. I like that aspect of Fable. I dont think the best idea in Fable 2 is to turn the combat into an Rpg-ized (not a word) Call of Duty. Bows are SO essential, it's almost impractical not to have them. Who CARES about crossbows, it was a pain in the *** to have to use them in Fable, because their loading and cocking was so hard to perfect. Bows were so much easier to use! And I even think that bows should have done more damage. It's 500 years in the future. Yeah i can understand guns. But why not have bows? You CAN make them more powerful... I'm just sure that some genious thought of a way to strengthen bows and make them more efficient. Bows can go through a persons body. I'm just not understaind how they are 'weak' in Fable 2. Like I said earlier... They dont have to be weak and I'm sure you can make them better. Bows are a must in ALL fable games. For the reason you took out bows, why not drop swords? And add Gatlings? Thats bascially an automatic kill? The answer is: Why DO take out swords? They are fun, and appeal to peoples' different styles of gameplay. For the same reason, Why take out Longbows? They are fun to use. Who cares if they arent . Each weapon should have it's specialty. For example. Bows can hit people over large stones, and you can arc the shot. Guns cant do that. You need to have a straight line to shoot. Can't arc guns I think it would be more "fableish" to sit in a tree sniping tangos with your stealthy, yet powerful bow, rather than Snipe them with a gun. It's more fun. Simple.

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III Things I want in Fable III:
More Magic in the World and Plot.
More diverse people in every aspect.
More Abilities in general; skill/strength/will.

^^^ exactly wonderfull post

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Why thank you, that is exactly how I feel about bows getting subtracted for the game. And I'm glad I said it

I think it really makes my point.

Cause I think fable is becoming more and more..'late'? As in, I think the devs are really setting fable 700 years later. I mean, no bow? Thats just not cool. The bow was my favorite weapon and fable 2 wouldnt be the same without it. Seriously, who cares if its bad, its still easier to use then the crossbow.

I'll only be fine with this if they make the crossbow easy to use. Cause in fable, it was impossible the first time i tried it, and I'm like "screw this!"

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III Things I want in Fable III:
More Magic in the World and Plot.
More diverse people in every aspect.
More Abilities in general; skill/strength/will.

meh... if your all gonna cry about this you might as well give up and play a bloody bow game.. if there is one?

or get a real bow and learn how to really use one?

"wait there is no A buttion on this... how do i shoot?"

here you go http://www.nata2.info/d/flash/f/bowman.swf click it, its a game with just bows - o the joy

"omfg they have taken out the bows and put in guns and called it Gunman"

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LOL look at what i have just found, its Gunman... nice music http://www.2flashgames.com/f/f-531.htm

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I don't really understand why bows couldn't have advanced in technology over 500 years.  Sam said in his post that wooden arrows just don't cut it, why are they still using wooden arrows?  In 500 years you would think someone would have made bows more advanced.  What about things like recurved bows or deflex bows, both are more powerful than your average longbow.  You start getting into things like metal shafts and different types of arrow tips and suddenly the technology gap disappears.

It seems funny that they want to stick to realism with bows yet guns.......watch the GDC video and you won't see anything realistic about that gun.  I still think that they don't want to reduce the rapid firing of the guns, thats why bows won't be in the game.  Bows should still be in for stealth, silence is necessary for an assassin, gunpowder weapons and noisy crossbows just wont do.  Portarock brings up a point, it does make you uncertain about a stealth system in Fable 2.

It would be nice to hear what the 'recent design change' was that made bows useless, not that it will happen.  Dog questions from March, scar-death questions from July, 1 button combat questions from July, and orb questions from last month all have yet to be answered so I think bow questions will just be another item on the 'no comment' list.

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Are you an ODST (fanboy)?

I know this isn't entirely related but if the use of long bows has been removed due to the age in which the game is going to be set, does that mean there won't be any heavy plate armours either as this was no longer being used in this period either? and I'm not sure but I think most other armour types were out of use too

I'm gonna go on ahead and just say that bows do need to be in. If I want to be an assassin I main key to fulfilling my task, and for my survival is stealth. A gun will alert everyone to your position, not just the noise, but also the flash as well. 

As for the GDC vid. I think that the gun fired as fast as it did, was just because it was a demo. I think it will take longer to reload it in the final build of the game (hopefully).

Bows should be in, fast, silent, but not as powerful as a gun.
Guns should be pretty powerful, but of course noisey and a big flash, slower to reload. This way each of these ranged weapons will have their advantages and disadvantages. Crossbow would be in between them, in power and speed, etc. A bullet does so much more raw damage to the human body than an arrow. The power of a bullet is awesomely devestating.
( I know my grammar is horrid, but I am very tired, so plese excuse it)

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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." (Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775)

TWAYBLADE:

I know this isn't entirely related but if the use of long bows has been removed due to the age in which the game is going to be set, does that mean there won't be any heavy plate armours either as this was no longer being used in this period either? and I'm not sure but I think most other armour types were out of use too

Of course they were militarily obsolete, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be useful or removed in individual 'adventuring'.

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OMG I <3 dis gaem guys!

I think bows should definetly be in the game, I've heard plenty of storys where the bow beats the gun, and the bow could have more uses than just fighting, you could tie a vine to them and fire it into a wall or branch to get around, or many other uses.But if theyr not then oh well, there will be plenty of more important things in the game to whine about, like the orbs everybody threw a tantrum over, bows or not it will be a great game anyways.

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The Chains of Destiny have broken, the gears are in motion. I am coming. I am Lord of The Shadows, all shall bow before me.
www.gameaces.com

Considering the time it would have taken to create unique animation and a unique holster, because the gun holster would have looked silly. In addition the 1800s bows vs guns being not true to life, I think they made a call.  

 

Plus the more they separate F2 from medieval time the better for the mass market, let’s face it the general public views medieval time game as geek and nerd thing.  

 

I know there will be stealth range weapons everything from a sleek crossbow to throwing weapons like knife and stars. I’m thinking crossbows will look like a crossbreed between a crossbow and a spear gun.

 

To a cool new twist to magic they could add a stealth range magic, in addition to the old school flashy stuff, look at movies I think you could find examples of both.  

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I believe in capitalism even thou I’m bad at it.