Ah nevermind.

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Alecunlimited, in B&W2 I can suck up every boy and girl into my fist and throw them in the ocean to drown. AND TAKE SCREENIES OF IT!

I suspect that's worse than thinking they're sexually attractive. This is a whole 'nother matter, but, I think it's funny sexy times with kids is worse than actually torturing them to death.

We're mass murderers in Grand Theft Auto, but bring on a Japanese rape simulator and holy mother of *** anyone who plays it is a budding sexual deviant.

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The_Orcid:

Alecunlimited, in B&W2 I can suck up every boy and girl into my fist and throw them in the ocean to drown. AND TAKE SCREENIES OF IT!

I suspect that's worse than thinking they're sexually attractive. This is a whole 'nother matter, but, I think it's funny sexy times with kids is worse than actually torturing them to death.

We're mass murderers in Grand Theft Auto, but bring on a Japanese rape simulator and holy mother of *** anyone who plays it is a budding sexual deviant.

I'm not going to get into a moral debate with you, but in my mind raping a child (one that is incapable of being argued as anything but a child) is just another form of torture, so brutally torturing them to death and raping (hence leaving them with emotional and quite possibly physical trauma that they may not ever be able to overcome) equate to about the same for me. Both are disgusting acts of pure , if I can use that term seriously.

Rapelay is a game I have personally never played, and wouldn't care to ever see again, and who's banning didn't exactly bother me, but I don't really know if the banning was right. Censorship is a tricky area with something like that, since free speech is invaluable, and what tipped the scale towards banning for me was the fact (or what I am lead to believe is fact) that you coud rape one of the younger girls (who looked well below the age we might find sex to be consentual outside of a rape game) and, when doing so, could actaully see the pain and tears well up in her eyes. To me, that's a whole new level of fucked up I'm not really in a position to deal with. I wasn't calling for it's ban, even though I think the game itself is a disgusting concept, because I don't like the slippery slope it'll inevitably lead to, but I can't say I'm all that sorry to see it go.

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Futurama is back, baby. Complete with the original cast!

ErodeTheSoul:

The_Orcid:

Alecunlimited, in B&W2 I can suck up every boy and girl into my fist and throw them in the ocean to drown. AND TAKE SCREENIES OF IT!

I suspect that's worse than thinking they're sexually attractive. This is a whole 'nother matter, but, I think it's funny sexy times with kids is worse than actually torturing them to death.

We're mass murderers in Grand Theft Auto, but bring on a Japanese rape simulator and holy mother of *** anyone who plays it is a budding sexual deviant.

I'm not going to get into a moral debate with you, but in my mind raping a child (one that is incapable of being argued as anything but a child) is just another form of torture, so brutally torturing them to death and raping (hence leaving them with emotional and quite possibly physical trauma that they may not ever be able to overcome) equate to about the same for me. Both are disgusting acts of pure , if I can use that term seriously.

 Sweeeeet!

 My point was that if you're gonna close a thread about virutal rape then Woody ought to take a look at all the 'WHAT ARE THE MOST THINGS YOU CAN DO IN BLACK & WHITE THREADS' and lock 'em real tight for the sake of everyone's moral fiber.

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Here's a question for you though, Erode; At what point does it stop being rape? Having sex with anybody below 16 is statutory rape. In my country, at least. Would you say that having sex with a fully willing 15 year old partner is the same as "brutally torturing them to death, and raping" them?

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I only wrote this because I hate you.

automission:

Can't just sweep it under the rugs chaps, and none of us are going to be doing such acts, so I still see no reason to lock these topics.

You didn't believe that part while typing it out, did you?

People will do it or at least try to, just to see if it can be done, period. That's a elemental truth to every game ever programmed.

 

The_Orcid:

We're mass murderers in Grand Theft Auto, but bring on a Japanese rape simulator and holy mother of *** anyone who plays it is a budding sexual deviant.

I totally agree with you on that, they are all sexually deviant.

 

ErodeTheSoul:

...and what tipped the scale towards banning for me was the fact (or what I am lead to believe is fact) that you coud rape one of the younger girls (who looked well below the age we might find sex to be consentual outside of a rape game)...

And if she had looked like a grown up it would have been more okay'ish for you?

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"Let me tell you this: if you meet a loner, no matter what they tell you, it’s not because they enjoy solitude.
It’s because they have tried to blend into the world before, and people continue to disappoint them."

There's nothing at all wrong with acknowledging that a game in which you play with and talk to a young child is likely to be used by paedophiles. The reason why this might be someone's first thought can depend upon any number of things, but you can't say that it makes them some kind of pervert. Like Erode said (in the other thread), there are many things someone could think when they see it. The question shouldn't be why paedophilia is the first thought, but why it wouldn't be. One of those possible first thoughts has to be the first one, there's no real reason why paedophilia being the first should be disturbing whatsoever. Thinking that paedophiles could abuse the software is most likely the result of a cautious mind, thinking that the AI looks great is the result of a mind with an interest in advancing AI, wondering what use it has in games is the result of a mind that wants to think about features of games, and so on. Accusing people of being disturbing for acknowledging the very true fact that paedophiles exist and are likely to take interest in this software (if it's released as Milo) is complete nonsense, as is accusing anyone of being ignorant if their first thoughts are of the game or technological advancements. They're nothing more than different viewpoints.


That said, trying to sweep the issue under the carpet and accusing everyone who says that it could be used by paedophiles of being disturbed is ignorant. Paedophiles do exist, attacking people who bring this to light is doing nothing but help them get away with it.

alecunlimited:

But surely the thread was discussing pedophilia, which is extreme sexuality n'est pas?

Actually (I didn't bother to look, though) I got the impression that the thread was not aimed at discussing paedophilia but the very real danger of abusing game mechanics.

Small, difference there.

And I would say with the ever more realistic looking new engines it is becoming a more pressing question than it was five or ten years ago.

---

"Let me tell you this: if you meet a loner, no matter what they tell you, it’s not because they enjoy solitude.
It’s because they have tried to blend into the world before, and people continue to disappoint them."

Daninsky:

ErodeTheSoul:

...and what tipped the scale towards banning for me was the fact (or what I am lead to believe is fact) that you coud rape one of the younger girls (who looked well below the age we might find sex to be consentual outside of a rape game)...

And if she had looked like a grown up it would have been more okay'ish for you?

Absoultely not. I would still think the game was disgusting and I would still not care about its fate. But there was just something about that bit of information that I was unable to make any sort of justification for.

Personally, within my own moral compass, I can't justify an sort of "rape for fun and pleasure" ideas, but I understand that that's a sexual fetish/fantasy practiced by many willing adults. I find it....disturbing, to be honest, but I could at least understand that there was a market for such a game. Did I approve of it or its content? Absoultely and irrevocably NO.

To be honest, I have a hard time finding any justification for the game, but I try in order to maintain my beliefs about censorship and banning. But you are right, and I misspoke I suppose; I find the game and its content to be disgusting and vile regardless of the assumed ages of the characters.

LethargicMotivator:

Here's a question for you though, Erode; At what point does it stop being rape? Having sex with anybody below 16 is statutory rape. In my country, at least. Would you say that having sex with a fully willing 15 year old partner is the same as "brutally torturing them to death, and raping" them?

That's a tricky question to get into. That's why I clarified "one that is incapable of being argued as anything but a child." The law defines an age of consent, but once a child hits puberty, it seems that this idea comes into quesiton. Plus, there are a lot of factors to consider. Are the two people engaging in the sex act the same age? Is one older than the other? In a position of power over the other? Are they both willing participants, or was one "persuaded"? It's a difficult situation to discuss.

Personally, I would draw the line at 16, only because I feel that at that age, I was capable of making informed decisions about my actions. Now, they may not have been the best decisions in the world, but at that age, I could weight the pros and cons, and make sounds decisions based on logical reasoning.

At the same time, I don't know why that 1 year makes so much difference to me. I can't imagine one year being a substantial enough amount of time to differintiate between rape and consentual sex, but for some reason, my mind flips out at the thought of consentual sex at 15. It's not a black and white issue for me, I suppose. For example, two 15 year olds having "consentual" sex has less of a negative effect on me than, say, a 15 year old and his/her 32 year old teacher. It's a grey area, I'll admit, and I find it difficult to sort out, even within my own moral compass.

So, is sex with a "willing" 15 year old participant tant amount to torture/rape? It depends on the situation. Initially, I would say no, but even consentual sex at such a young age could have a devestating effect on that person. It's a difficult situation to discuss, though....

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Futurama is back, baby. Complete with the original cast!

It's awkward that a program that Lionhead probably designed merely to entertain children on a Sunday afternoon, has actually sparked a debate about the abuse of children.

Also, Erode, you need to read yo mail!

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I only wrote this because I hate you.

mystic_wolf83:

No silly, we are going to go explore in the Hobbe Cave (such as his shirt foreshadows), and have epic In the Movies scenes while we reinact scenes from Fable and Black and White. Not sure about adventures really, it seems mostly about just interacting with him as he expands in his own little universe, basically he seems to be just a normal friend you would have in your childhood.

DUDE!! What if he gets OLDER!? Yeah, NOW we can go exploring the hobbe cave! Maybe not explore his adventures with Kate

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Fighting fire with fire burns the whole world.

ErodeTheSoul:

dontcountstars:

I dont know, I think it is sad that the first thing everyone thinks of is how many possibilities there would be to abuse a simulated child.

None of those thoughts ever crossed my mind, I dont know how anyone would ever want to do something like that, or even think about people wanting to.

Thank you! I was called ignorant in the last thread for basically thinking the same way as you. At least I know I'm not alone

same here. but i guess there are sick people in the world.

also i could understand why they would delete the threads only because once you talk negative about something (nomatter the circumstance) some people tend to either not want to buy the product, would not like the product anymore, or they could feel insulted because they made somehting truly unremarkable.

and i would also see your side to why you are angry. Milo is just in a videogame. after all im sure most of us have posted bad things about other characters in fable 2 and all the other LH games.

truth is, if a thread gets locked that is because you have upset a dev. After all none of us would be on this site if it wasn't to us. so if you do not feel that your thread is too "extreme" you should contact a dev about your problem.

lastly, (off topic) i think LH should incorperate sexual themes, deeds and everything else. because after all this is just a game and you guys are trying to make Milo and his world as lifelike as possible. and no matter how harsh or extreme things may be the only way to make a great game is to not be afraid of violence or nudity and put everything in. oh and before i forget try to make milo understand just about everything (languages i think should not be put in, only English because the game would take forever, and no one knows every language)

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alecunlimited:

sim656:

alecunlimited:

But surely the thread was discussing pedophilia, which is extreme sexuality n'est pas?

Possibly, probably not the best word to use pedophilia

I thought the thread in question was the one titled "Sad mental state of today's gamers (pedophilia)" that Woody locked?

Thats what I meant.

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PM me if you want an invite to lockerz!

artiboi21:

lastly, (off topic) i think LH should incorperate sexual themes, deeds and everything else.

I partly agree, allthough 'sexual themes' is a tough one. In regard to Milo I would have to wonder what themes that might be, from his looks he his ten maybe twelve, any sexual games I played in that age was secretly watching porn and trying to look girls under the skirt.

There might be a game in that.

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"Let me tell you this: if you meet a loner, no matter what they tell you, it’s not because they enjoy solitude.
It’s because they have tried to blend into the world before, and people continue to disappoint them."

Daninsky:

artiboi21:

lastly, (off topic) i think LH should incorperate sexual themes, deeds and everything else.

I partly agree, allthough 'sexual themes' is a tough one. In regard to Milo I would have to wonder what themes that might be, from his looks he his ten maybe twelve, any sexual games I played in that age was secretly watching porn and trying to look girls under the skirt.

There might be a game in that.

haha. well like depends about the game. like Milo could be the little perve we both used to be lol.

---

i wander if we can get him to do trigonometry for us he'll be a college gads favorite for sure

---

-DR T JR-
self proclaimed king of gimmicks

Daninsky:

artiboi21:

lastly, (off topic) i think LH should incorperate sexual themes, deeds and everything else.

I partly agree, allthough 'sexual themes' is a tough one. In regard to Milo I would have to wonder what themes that might be, from his looks he his ten maybe twelve, any sexual games I played in that age was secretly watching porn and trying to look girls under the skirt.

There might be a game in that.

So, how about that aging thing? That's how it could be incorporated to be a mature game. Also, you would be an influence to him, and that could change the life and decisions he makes, as well as the personality he stands firmly in by adulthood.

---

Fighting fire with fire burns the whole world.

or he could just be a virtual punching bag for your desires

---

-DR T JR-
self proclaimed king of gimmicks

Daninsky:

artiboi21:

lastly, (off topic) i think LH should incorperate sexual themes, deeds and everything else.

I partly agree, allthough 'sexual themes' is a tough one. In regard to Milo I would have to wonder what themes that might be, from his looks he his ten maybe twelve, any sexual games I played in that age was secretly watching porn and trying to look girls under the skirt.

There might be a game in that.

*Random Pop-Up on the TV Screen*
Hi there, the name's Chris Hansen. Why don't you have a seat right there...

Guys, and gals, some of you really dissapoint me. Some of you really need to take a look at yourselves in the mirror. Milo is ten years old, you don't go and do that kind of stuff with a real child, do you? It's one thing to be an inspiration for a ten year old, flashing your private bits at him / her is a complete different matter and one, if you're seriously thinking about it, that's reason enough to go and find professional help with your 'personal problem'.

But this is the internet, where social barriers are non-existent and humanities true nature can shine through. Except it doesn't shine, it sort of wallows in its own filth attempting to do a half hearted belly dance. It appears that Milo gives people the opportunity to explore their dark side, where in the real world it is generally repressed.
I think I'd rather these people do sick things to an imaginary, digital ten year old than a real one. Although I doubt any of the things they're thinking of doing will be at all possible with the program.

---

The only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one.

I doubt the programing will alow it to reconise it so I dont see what to problem is any way. Ile probably do some stupid stuff but not quite as sick as most are suggesting here, probably if my cusin comes round and we get drunk we might take advantage of the picture scanner and a porn mag just for giggles, or see if he scans a bottle of newky, or ask him stupid questions, I'm just being honest here though, when your with a friend who's as imature as you and you've had a few to drink, your bound to do some thing stupid, just for giggles, I dont get the problem with that, if you go down to the basics its just a series of pollygons and code.

---

"IrishMorn"
If Adon and Sagat step in....ah, what the hell, I'll get drunk and join in on that one.

humans will be humans, and that means to do stupid things that don't appear to make sense on face value. And then other humans will go and judge them on face value anyway. In SL people had the freedom to make their avatar resemble anything they wanted, so some people went and made childish avatars and then sold their avatar's bodies much like a real prostitute might. These where adult people, having cybersex with other adult people, but we all know what it looked like...

Shortly after, the makers of SL banned this behaviour. But my point is, this is what people do when given new freedoms, they do whatever comes to mind, and hide it as we might, there are some pretty weird things hiding in the human mind. Invent a game like Milo and Kate and people WILL do weird stuff with it. I don't know if it's a thing or a bad thing (for all we know it actually prevents them doing it for real, or it encourages them to try) but I do count on it happening. Introduce a kid with new freedoms without telling him how to use it, and stuff will go wrong. Why should it be any different for an adult?

Sam:

Guys, and gals, some of you really dissapoint me. Some of you really need to take a look at yourselves in the mirror. Milo is ten years old, you don't go and do that kind of stuff with a real child, do you? It's one thing to be an inspiration for a ten year old, flashing your private bits at him / her is a complete different matter and one, if you're seriously thinking about it, that's reason enough to go and find professional help with your 'personal problem'.

That's bullshit and you know it.

Of course i dont go around flashing my "private parts" to kids. But is this a kid ? No it's a 3d rendered boy that you say is 10 years old just like all the damm village people in black and white arent real and i get my creature to eat them and throw *** at them and sometimes i even drown all the kids just for the fun of it.

What i do with a game doesnt represent me in any way, neither do i drive around in NY picking up hookers, stabbing them and then takes my money back. Thing is they dont have feelings... Only feeling the devs programmed into them and sure they scream but it doesnt matter because it is a video game.

If you didnt actually work for lionhead and knew about this i bet the thought about abusing milo on one way or the other would also have popped into your head.

---

Sam:

Guys, and gals, some of you really dissapoint me. Some of you really need to take a look at yourselves in the mirror. Milo is ten years old, you don't go and do that kind of stuff with a real child, do you? It's one thing to be an inspiration for a ten year old, flashing your private bits at him / her is a complete different matter and one, if you're seriously thinking about it, that's reason enough to go and find professional help with your 'personal problem'.

Oh, bullshit, Sam. I agree with Maggot.

Unless you've never killed a hooker with a baseball bat after you made sweeeet love to her in your white drug-toting minivan in GTA, I wouldn't be one to talk.

Unless you've never wrangled a little girl up into your giant-sized metaphysical fist in Black & White and proceeded to hurl her kicking and screaming to Parts Unknown, I wouldn't be one to talk.

Unless you've never, well, played any game ever in the history of all eternity, outside of Pong, then you've murdered, maimed, seduced, exploded, destroyed, sliced, diced, shot, stabbed, incinerated, lied to, cheated, and stole something.

In which case, I wouldn't be one to talk.

... BUT, maybe being a hypocrite is your thing, and that's cool too.

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