Fable I's death system was too easy because it was so easy to get ahold of Ressurection phials.

Fable II's death system was too soft, once you've discovered the Crucible, all you need to do to get all you levels up is drink loads of XP potions before fighting the hollow men and you've already got enough experience to get 5 star on all levels (well, you may have to do it several times). Once you've done that, you really don't have anything to loose, and you hardly ever do die then anyway.

For Fable III, I've thought of a something a little less forgiving. In fact it isn't actually a "death system" at all, you wont die, you wont be knocked out, nor will you even have a health bar (it may sound silly at first, but hear me out). Instead whenever you are hit successfully by an enemy, you will feel "pain". Similar to when you got hit in Lego Star Wars, when you you get hit will loose gold and it will never come back. Not only that, whenever you are hit, you are permanently scarred, you will loose experience and will loose renown. No scars can be removed and will never get the experience, gold or renown that you lost back. Though, you can avoid this by blocking of course.

A higher toughness level will make you less prone to this, and of course, stronger enemies will harm you more than weaker ones.

It may answer Lionhead's problem over people prefering to restart their console rather than face permanent scars, because at the end of the day, it's going to happen anyway.

Please tell me what you think of this idea.

So would you get rid of healing potions then?

 

I guess I don't understand why people wouldn't do the same thing you say they do now - turn off the console if they took too many hits during a fight.

 

I dunno about that idea.  I just think that the old idea of death should come back.  If you loose all health in a fight you start back at your last save.  It may be frustrating but it gives purpose and makes you a better fighter in the end.

---

There comes a time in every young mans' life when he must realize that life is hard and so is he.

albionhero3:

I dunno about that idea.  I just think that the old idea of death should come back.  If you loose all health in a fight you start back at your last save.  It may be frustrating but it gives purpose and makes you a better fighter in the end.

I was thinking something more along the lines of keeping your data but you appear in some healing cottage or something. Like in GTA IV you never die but you always go to hospital.

---

Its but i rather liek mine. In other posts I have some rather confusing versions of how Id love the combat to be.

In Fable 1 there was Avo and Skorm, so bring that back in 3 just NPCs dont know about them. When you die you go to another dimension and are given a few options such as give up all of your gold, sacrafice your child or do a small but really hard monster hunt or something and depending on wich you choose your devoting yourself to that god and when your revived you are scarred just for the fact you got yourself into that mess in the first place. ALSO I would love an alchemy system wich I posted in another place so I wont explain it. SO instead of buying resurecction vials you have to make them, and ingredients are so rare the odds of you making 2 in a game are slim to none, unless you like to hunt them down, I thought of only having one of each ingredient in a random place in albion and when you pick it then it will apear a month latter an a much different random place. This way your not stock piling on potions. OR charge liek 100,000,000 a vial.

Yeah. I strongly agree to that death system very well! but 1 thing, losing renown?

so when your hit you loose renown? that's unlikely because people wont forget about you, it would be better if they start yellin things at you like: Loser! or Coward! things like that

---

I never forgive, I never forget.

Yeah, no. There's gotta be death. I think the first game's death idea was fine, we just need to be less forgiving, put in checkpoints, and make resurrection phials scarce. Let's just make this plain and simple. As for scarring, I think there should be armor. The armor rating will act as a percent system, giving the hero a percent chance of not getting scarred. Not also should the rating act as a way to lessen damage, but to lessen the scar. The intensity of the scar visual varies directly with damage dealt. If the attacker's attack points, whatever that is, is any greater than the armor rating, the difference is dealt in damage. if the the damage against the armor rating is less or equal, than no damage is done.

---

Fighting fire with fire burns the whole world.

My idea is that when you lose all your health, they give you an option for what happens to your character. There could be four choices: Disfigurement, amnesia, death, or reincarnation if you have a kid. It could say "Choose your fate".
 
If you choose disfigurement the enemies would beat your character while he/she is down causing scarring varying in severity depending on the enemy that beat you. Amnesia would cause you to lose experience from the beatings also varying depending on the enemy. In both of those your character gets carried to the nearest town by a wandering traveler and wakes up in a cottage. In a boss battle however,you would instead wake up after the beatings a push everyone back like in fable 2. Choosing death would cause a game over like in the first game.

And reincarnation is choosing to have your kid take your place. In order to prevent stacking up on multiple lives by having a lot of kids you can only have one kid set up as a replacement at a time. You choose by giving a special heirloom necklace or something to your kid which was also given to you by your father. It could have a guild seal.  After choosing reincarnation it shows a cut scene about how your kid studied and trained in your foot steps after your death.Then he gets the same attributes as you. However all your former wives are lost. Well that's my idea. I think your idea is also but too difficult for casual players.

anonymousguy:

Not only that, whenever you are hit, you are permanently scarred,

It may answer Lionhead's problem over people prefering to restart their console rather than face permanent scars, because at the end of the day, it's going to happen anyway.

Sadly there are perfectionists out there that will still restart their system to avoid scars. With this system you are just making it more of a frustrating experience for them.

I like the process you are taking with this but I'm not sure it would in practice. A death system (IMHO) is usually something you have to implement and see how it works from there. That being said, there are ways to test things out before putting them in a game.

I always recommend that designers make a table top (pencil and paper) version of their system before putting it into game. That way you get a feel on if something is literally going to work "on paper" before it goes into the game.

I had an idea for a death system to use in Fable, but I'd rather not steer the thread to another death system when we are discussing yours. :-)

That brings back the farming children thing. It takes away the emotion in having a kid(whatever there is to be seen in it, as in my opinion, they're just another NPC). And being able to choose not to die just takes away from the reality and seriousness of death. Death is a horrible thing. Death should be an unpreventable thing. You shouldn't be able to take a side-journey. We all fear or are discouraged by the wall that death sets before us, and the choice given to not die, or TO die as if you can expect it just brings it low. It's a serious thing. For a long time, people have had it right in video games how to incorporate death into the world of their games. If you die, you don't come back, unless by some miracle or small chance of cheating it you are given life again.

In order to avoid constantly being given these options, the game has to be easy as pie.

---

Fighting fire with fire burns the whole world.

I don't think it's a great idea. Fable 1 had a similar system, and I just found it annoying when my player got hit and scarred.

Scars should be only for a short time. If you get knocked down you have a scar for a day or a week but then it should disappear. More permanent scars should come from the choices you make in the game (the story) and/or dying.

Going to another world is an interesting idea iteself. The first person shooter game, Prey, used it. I can see in a rpg or fantasy game like Fable, it would be taking this idea from Lord of the Rings (Gandalf comes back as Gandalf the White.) If you master your will you should be able to have this option. Where you will go should also depend on your alignment as well.

The death system should have a few small changes.


-Less resurrection phials. It's silly to see these so common in the game. Coming back to life is a big deal.

- Less Health Positions. Most of your Health should come from food. As well as a fatigue factor that goes into the game. Food should be plentiful while positions should be rare.

- Better clothing to protect you from scars. My big complaint in Fable 2 was the clothing sucked

- Potions and other items that help you remove scars. For instance, a proper diet or a potion that helps you look better. Love potions are common in fairy tails. Other things that affect love could also be fewer scars. Some potions would be more effective than others

- Different scars. Some would be weak and others should be forever. It depends on whom or what's giving it and what happens. One where you get knocked out would be worse than say one where you get hit.

The death system I would like would have more of a knock out system. Every time you die you would wake up on the ground bloody and nasty with scars on you that are permanent. This would affect your social life (work, love and other social activities.)

Dying should be rare if you eat right and fight properly.

btw, dying is a horrible thing in real life but it's just annoying in a game. Most people just get pissed off. Too err on the side of easy is better than to err on the side of hard.

---

The question why there is in existence is the same as why there is imperfection...But this is the real question we ought to ask: Is thisimperfection the final truth, is absolute and ultimate?-Rabindranath
Tagore

I've always been interested in Death Systems...but never been able to think of one that would be not too harsh, but not too forgiving... but I was thinking, in an RPG Maker game I'm working on, there's a place called "Ispolimune" which is basically just like hell. It' a small palace, with a force-field around it....you can interact with the dead here, and even do side quests. But if you want to come back to life, you must find; "The Key". It's bascally a Portal back to the spot where you died.....there are three special dungeons, and each time you want to be resurrected, the key will be in one of these dungeons...so you may need to check all of them each time, until you find the one with the key in it...

---

Take the Role-Playing Stereotype quiz.

Wow! I really like that idea! way to go!

This thread has a lot of interesting ideas in it. I particularly like the idea of 'choosing your fate' when faced with death, as that seems to fit in with the whole Fable universe of making choices. Then again, death is usually something unexpected in real life, despite the fact there is never any avoiding it!

I think, in games, every challenge should be balanced with risk. If there is no risk, then there is no challenge. A risk doesn't always have to mean death and could be any kind of failure condition, but within Fable 2, the death system was far too simplistic I thought. Losing experience points isn't much of a risk if you can then go and grind back those lost points afterwards. However, forcing the player to re-do the sections they failed or return to a game over screen doesn't help either.

*thinks about it*

that part about loosing money with every hit is to cartoony.
the scars should be able to removed.
loosing experience sounds But then beginners wouldn't find it so fun.

Worse idea I have heard in a long time.

Fable TLC's death system was awesome. But hard as Ress phials ran out ( Damn you jack!)

Fable 2's death system lacked a real consequence.

Have it that every time you die, 3 years pass. Would be fun for family characters.

---

Your people just destroyed a hard built character with a simple stupid decision. Yes i understand the game said it was irreversible

I think you'll find it was you.

- The Bag,

Ive always prefered haveing to start over or start from checkpoint after dying. And would like to see it in Fable III.

---

When you smile the whole world smiles with you, when you fart you stand alone.