I Adore the black and white Series. Black and white 1 and 2 were both incredible games in their own ways. However, it felt as though Black and White 2, although bringing many sorely needed features, lost some of the non-linear gameplay that BW1 had. Black and White 2 felt far too much like a conventional Real Time Strategy game. There were no enemy gods, the enemy villages always acted the same way over and over, the villages would convert automatically as your city became more impressive. I've actually had games end accidentally while i was just innocently building my village, because I managed to surpass that crucial impressiveness threshold. It felt like the fact that you were a god wasnt really all that critical. Most of what you did was done by your pet or your people. Sure you'd cast the occaisional miracle to bring down fire and brimstone on the heretics, but when the opponent was just a godless village with no miraculous savior to help them, it seems more like burning ants with a magnifying glass. I do love the many extra features in black and white 2, however, especially the fact that your villagers can look after themselves! It was so frustrating catering after the food and wood desires of the villagers in the first game. Once a village grew to be a certain size, you just felt like tapping a lightning miracle and frying some people just so they dont burn through their food stores so quickly! The building variety in black and white 2 was incredible, and i loved how the terrain changed to suit your alignment! Thus, without further Ado, here is my suggestion for a third release in the Black and White series!: (Ta-Da!) 1: - The Citadel: In black and white 2, the lack of a citadel, which had been such a powerful and imposing presence in the first game, made me feel quite naked and exposed, to be honest. I had no anchor, as a god, no base of power, no physical representation of my godliness. I liked to imagine that when people looked across the land and saw my citadel towering high into the sky, they were reminded of my presence and power, and were impressed. Also, while I had a tower, I still existed. So long as i had that tower, i had a creature to do my bidding, and could still impress people. I feel that re-introducing the citadel would help players become a little more personally attatched to elements of the game. A player would not automatically start with a citadel, but would gain the ability to build one as belief in him or her became stronger, typically when one of the villages he controls becomes a Town. 2: - Impressiveness: In both black and white 1 and 2, you impress villages. I feel, however, that it would be more realistic to impress villagers individually. Once the number of villagers who convert to worshipping you becomes higher than a certain percent, then the village will become yours, though those villagers who had not converted would still retain their old faith, or remain agnostic, until sufficiently impressed. The people would naturally have some resistance to conversion, while those who were already faithful to another god would be even more difficult to convert. Even in the event that this particular feature is too difficult to reliably work, there are some methods of impressiveness that could be added which did not exist in previous games. True missionaries, for example; people of your faith (signified by a little icon above their heads) who travel to other lands and spread belief in those villages, towns, and cities at a slow but reliable rate. Missionaries would be trained at your temple (while worshippers would be trained exclusively at the altar). Priests, who would simply be workers who train at the temple automatically, would travel within their own village ministering to the people, and building belief in your own territory, making them harder to convert. 3: - Multidimensionalism: In black and white, and all its expansions and sequels, you are allowed only two paths. , or . The extremity of these paths is entirely up to you, from extreme to neutral, but the paths themselves remain fixed. In this expansion, thanks to the release of black and white 2 and the introduction of armies, your behaviour would influence other aspects of your godliness as well. Gods who build many war structures (barracks, archery ranges, etc) and wage war often, or train large armies, would become more warlike, which would be expressed in the appearance of the villagers, territory, and representations of your godhood (statues at temples, your citadel appearance, your hand, etc). Whether this made you become good or evil would depend on whether you were offensive or defensive in your use of military might. Sending out your armies to attack and capture peaceful settlements, for example, would be evil, while building a large army, but standing them at your walls for defense would not affect your good/evil inclination. Having small armies, or no armies at all, on the other hand, would make your disposition more pacifist, also reflected in your architecture, territory, etc. An evil, militaristic god's territory would look quite imposing compared to a peacful, benevolent god. 4: - Races: In black and white 2, there werent nearly enough races and faiths. There were the greeks, the norse, the japanese, and the aztecs (a peculiar lot of races if I ever saw one). To make matters worse, you were stuck with the Greeks, unable to customize your own people at all. I would much sooner have been the norse, for example, or the celts (especially the celts, i love those little buggers! I am one, dontchya know?). Reintroduce the Egyptians, the Indians, the Celts, and add a few more races for distinctiveness, like the Africans (perhaps more specific, like the Numidians, or some other ancient african empire), the Arabs, let imagination guide you. And give these races back their racially distinct wonders, each with their own bonus effects, like in the original black and white. Unlike the original, though, make the size and resource cost fixed, but make the effect increase for the power of the believers associated with that particular wonder. 5: - Miracles: Although the plethora of miracles available in the original black and white did get a bit overwhelming sometimes, a bit of variety is always a good thing. For the most part, Black and White 2 had all the necessary miracles, but the lack of Food and Wood miracles was sometimes inconvenient. Although there shouldnt be a dependancy on these miracles, they should still at least be available in some form. An ABUNDANCE miracle, for example, which could be cast over the village warehouse to increase the holdings, and some powerful, rather expensive miracles for the production of these resources (Iron Miracle, Forest Miracle, Abundant Nature Miracle). In addition, there should be a few more major miracles. However, the construction of wonders for each miracle seems a cumbersome mechanic which could perhaps be entirely avoided. An alternative to seperate wonders, since the Citadel is reintroduced in this game, would be to add the construction of wonders Onto the citadel, with expansion slots for up to five wonders around its base, each wonder representing not one miracle, but one element of miracle, one for water, fire, earth, life, and death. The siren would clearly be attatched to water, as would the Hurricane, while Fire would grant such super-miracles as Volcano, and Firestorm (a hellish storm effect which rains fireballs), and much the same for Earth with Earthquake and so on. 6: - Lands: The lands in black and white were massive, and generally would take ages to explore fully. In Black and White 2 they seemed a bit shrunken by comparison. With the ever improving nature of computers, and the increasingly unimpressed player base who care less about looks and more about gameplay, a prudent approach would be to leave the graphics much as they are (as in black and white 2 they are already quite good) and focus on making the lands bigger. This is especially important when it is considered that thanks to the city building aspect added in Black and White 2, cities need a lot more room to grow than they used to. In addition, bigger lands means more villages, and more room for special side-quests and other interesting features. 7: - Villages: Unlike the villages in the original Black and White, those in Black and White 2 do not seem realistic or complete. They are not self sufficient, most dont contain even the most basic civic buildings, and they appear to simply be 'storehouses' for neutral people just waiting to be impressed. In Black and White 3, these independant villages should have their own AI, growing, expanding, and managing their own needs as they grow older, and becoming more and more difficult to impress. Moreover, when an independant village grows to a certain size, the people should start to desire a god, becoming more impressionable, but also gaining the ability to generate their own god, if left alone for too long. These newly generated gods would eventually gain their own citadels in much the same way as the other gods, and their behavioral patterns would be randomly generated upon creation, using much the same sort of AI as which governs the Creature. Gods would not start with a city, or in fact anything at all. They would begin the land with a few worshippers, and build from scratch. Pregenerated villages in the land would start in basic form, with only a few buildings, randomly placed rather than cookie-cutter placeables. When a god succeeded in impressing a village to the point of conversion, that village would come under his control, rather than the Black and White 2 system where the villagers simply leave the village and come to the god's city. 8: - Gods: Governed by an AI similar to that which controls Creatures, the gods would all have their own temperments, peculiar habits, and behaviors. The lack of gods in Black and White 2 was a major loss in the gameplay, as being the only god in the land does make things a bit dull. Additionally, the behavior of the godless villages is far too scripted and rehearsed, making it terribly predictable and boring. In Black and White 1, it was difficult to tell what the opposing god would be doing next, which always made things interesting. Recall heavily upon the AI behaviors of the gods in the original black and white game, and toss in some randomization for greater interest. 9: - Menu Bars and Interfaces: One of the very great things about Black and White 1 was that there were no interfaces, no menu bars. Sure, they make things more convenient, but they also detract from the 'feel' of the game. Black and White 3 should put a minimal emphasis in menus and interfaces, relying as heavily as possible on the Number One Tool of the Omnipotent Handyman, his own hand. Although the scaffolding feature in the original black and white was a bit cumbersome, a similar feature would be prefferable to the action bar. A building center which, when clicked on, offers a menu of scaffold types to build, which can also be used by the villagers to expand the village as they see fit, if the Auto-build option was enabled. For maximum immersion, there should be as few interfaces as possible, and any menus should be attatched to buildings, rather than to the 'hub', because Gods dont have Hubs. 10: - Auto-manage/Micro-manage: If auto-build was enabled, Architect Disciples would set about placing the scaffolds for the various buildings that the town desired, laying roads, and placing special buildings to emphasis a god's particular alignment. The Auto-Build function would be the same type used in the neutral villages, intelligently placing buildings and roads according to certain standardized parameters to achieve the maximum optimal effect, and meet the growing village's needs, following construction guidelines which would specify such things as how much of a gap to leave between buildings and roads, how to zone civic, industrial, and residential areas to achieve a balance between happiness and efficiency (possibly set by the player via a Happiness - Efficiency ratio bar). 11: - Setting: Black and White 3 should more or less ignore Black and White 2, at the very least not attempt to follow directly in the footsteps of the BW2 campaign. Black and White 3 should be a total plot diversion, still focussed on the same basic goals, conquer the lands and convert the peoples, but with a new, less linear story. In fact, to enable even greater playability, Black and White 3 should have an open ended campaign, with the ability to go back and forth from one land to the next, and with a storyline which is affected by the god's alignment and choices, rather than automatically advancing to the next fully scripted chapter once all the objectives have been met. Rather than a returning god, Black and White 3 should start fresh, like the first one, allowing even new players to truly get into the story without having to have played the previous game first in order to relate. The story should not be set too far ahead in time from Black and White 2, but may perhaps include ruins and relics from the great gods of the previous games. In fact, the final 'boss' god at the end of Black and White 3 could very well be the Greek god from Black and White 2 (With the option to upload the player's profile from black and white 2, and use those parameters for the 'boss' god's AI profile). 12: - Special Effects: One of the guilty pleasures of players of Black and White has always been to manipulate their own alignment to achieve a certain visual effect in the world. Rather than this, black and white 3 should feature some Special Effects options, purchaseable through Tribute or Mana. These effects may or may not influence the disposition or mood of your citizens, but would primarly simply provide visual enhancement for the player's benefit. These Special Effects would not be placeables, but rather would affect buildings, people, or territory within the god's influence. Such effects as Columns of Lightning, Rain, Fog, Darkness, Blackened and Desolate earth, Bright green grass, Pleasant sunshine, Shafts of light, Flowery meadows (distinct from the placeable meadows), flocks of birds and animals, both good, neutral, and evil, Citizen clothing effects, etc. allowing a player to fully customize their godly appearance without all that awkward mucking around with alignment. Many of these effects would affect both the alignment of the god, and the behavior and disposition of his followers, however. These effects would also improve a god's impressiveness. However, these effects would be quite expensive. 13: - Customization: Since Black and White is meant to be a truly Open Ended game, a player should be given the ability to fully customize his preferred starting race, certain architectural features associated with that race, starting alignment, etc. As the game continues, the player should, through the Special Effects features and through additional customization features, be able to mould his people and his territory into whatever he wishes, setting down commandments, dictating virtues, and doing all those other fun things gods do. You are a god, after all, you can tell your people what's good and what's bad, what's right and wrong. You can mould your people into a spartan warrior state hell-bent on pillage and plunder, setting your villages to automatically produce armies to raid and ravage the surrounding landscape, or you can turn them into a peace loving theocracy, sending missionaries and scholars to educate and spread belief. 14: - Villagers: One positive thing which Black and White 2 added to the franchise was the introduction of competent, self reliant villagers, people who could actually take care of themselves, and didnt constantly require a godly babysitter. This should be taken a step or two further in Black and White 3, giving gods the ability to tell their villagers to do things on their own. "GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES!" and all that. By laying down commandments and virtues, placing special emphasis on certain features of daily life (accessible through the Temple, and spread gradually throughout your followers by the priests who work there), a god should be able to give the villagers a blueprint for their behavior, so that they will automatically seek out things to do that conform to that set of moral ideals, from raising armies and waging war, to raising universities and writing poetry. 15: - Creature: Though the customization interface for creatures in black and white 2 made training your creature far more convenient, many of its features actually detracted from the mechanic of having a creature, making him or her less like a pet, and more like a factory produced unit. The creature in black and white 1 had a depth of personality that was simply unmatched by its BW2 counterpart, who was rather bland by comparison. Keeping some parts of the interface, such as the ability to recall 'RECENT' actions and either reward or punish the creature for them, but losing others, such as simply buying training for a creature to learn miracles, and setting default stances, which detract from the creature's natural personality (note, only Recent actions could be recalled, as if you wait too long, the creature will forget what it did). Learning miracles would be a practice mostly undertaken by the creature itself, as the creature observes, and then attempts such miracles, rather than having to be shown the same miracle repeatedly until eventually it reaches 100%. Naturally, the creature would occaisionally get into trouble like this, casting a newly learned fireball miracle into your village center or healing a group of trees, but this learning process is part of what made the creature in black and white 1 so endearing. With this independant decision making capability, and positive/negative reinforcement method, creatures in the original black and white game were always unique, even when the same player replayed the game with the same type of creature; the creatures were NEVER completely duplicated, and always individual. Thus, by recycling this AI, with a few minor refinements, a few additional decision options and impulses, and perhaps a bit more emphasis on emotional disposition (happiness, sadness, boredom, etc), a truly dynamic creature could be created which would even surpass the intricasy and sophistication of the original. For questions or comments please reply to the email address from which this document was sent. Additional material may be added at a later date. Why make Black and White 3?: Black and White was a wild success, and a truly revolutionary game, whos most shining feature was the Creature, whos AI was so powerful that Guiness Book of World Records acknowledged it in 2001 as the most advanced Artificial Intelligence in the world at that time. The failure of Black and White 2 was not due to an inherint lack of appeal in the game itself, but the implementation, which was not as clever or as open-ended as the original. Many features which made the original Black and White such a success were removed in Black and White 2, and many others were changed beyond recognition. Though many good features were added, the cumulative detriment to playability eventually became the death of the game. However, even in spite of the loss of black and white 2, the Black and White franchise is still alive and well, with a vast fanbase just WAITING for a new installment of this highly addictive and enjoyable game. By drawing upon the lessons learned from both Black and White, and Black and White 2, Lionhead can easily create a powerful, versatile, captivating game to revitalize the franchise. Simply by combining the addictive and enjoyable features from both games, and removing those detriments which haunted both games, Black and White 3 can be made to operate smoothly, play enjoyably, and enthrall a whole generation of gamers in exactly the same way the original did. So long as Lionhead doesnt wait too long, lest the thrill of Black and White grow cold, a big hit game could very easily be made of this. However, if made, Black and White 3 would require a deal more attention than Black and White 2 recieved in terms of gameplay. Black and white 2 looks brilliant, so obviously the graphics rendering is top notch, but gameplay suffered, and in the end, Gameplay is what decides whether or not a game survives. If desirable, I would like to include a post script to the effect that if this input is appreciated, I would vastly enjoy the ability to contribute to the ventures of this company on a more professional level with greater regularity, though not neccessarily in any sort of paid position. I just enjoy playing and creating games! As yet I have no experience with graphic design, only basic experience with programming, and no work history in this field, but for Intellectual Design, Concieptual Design, and Writing (as seen above), I am moderately qualified. All I really want is just the ability to have some input on game design where my Imagination can be put to some use. I have a wide variety of other game design conciepts in the works as well, available on interest. Legal Note (for the sake of those who are intimidated by the threat of lawsuits): By submitting this information I waive any exclusive concieptual rights to it and am aware that it may or may not be used in any way for any purpose. I do not hold anyone responsible for any applications of the above material to any end or purpose. (There, feel better?)

I like the Idead you have espicailly, the one where the villagers need an AL and where they can expand. Not like in black & white 2 where they dont build anything at all, pretty boring if you ask me.

I agree with much (if not all) you have said

yeah if they took all of that advice and made B&W3 out of it they would truely have a goo game. Now i have read that i dont feel much like a god on B&W2 and more like a big hand.

You win. /sign

most things are right / good. so thumbs up for you.

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Alot of this stuff has been mentioned before, but since you are reasonably new to the boards, you won't have seen it. The idea of the special effects is quite good, but against what you said, it would probably be linked into alignment. To add an old point - why are the miracles fixed at one "power setting"? If I am correct, in BW2 they were going to "level up", but it would be best if the maximum power levelled up, but you could select a power setting below that. This would increase the versitility of miracles - a light shower for putting out a fire, a tsunami for putting out an army. A spark to light a non-believer, a nuclear explosion for a city of the b*****ds. {water and fire miracles if you were wondering.} As for your "abundance" miracle, try casting life on a storehouse in BOTG.

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Internet problems fixed...

Looks like I'm back.

yea i agreed with most of it mostly the part about 13: - Customization: and the need for the orginal B@W 1 Mircicals i miss my doves...

also an idea to try would be online multiplayer gaming and a random map generator as well as a random god generator to fight you. Great ideas

yep good ideas that lionhead will ignore

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 Quoting: figgy13

yep good ideas that lionhead will ignore

Lol at the way you combine cynicism with naiveté Do you possibly think that Lionhead look at the good ideas and think, hey, they're cool dude, let's make sure we keep them out? Do you maybe think that they're schizo and they can't tell what's fun to play and what's not? Or that they just don't even bother looking at these ideas. You'd be wrong on all counts. The thing is that they were and will always be making the game they want to make, and your ideas probably aren't in their vision. They have real choices to make about what costs so much money to put in that it's not worth the potential extra money; yes, game companies don't live in chocolate-playtime-fairyland where they make dream games. They read pretty much everything on these forums. Yes, they read feedback on previous games, they see what people say they'd like to see, but at the end of the day they put it through a filter of common sense and mad game design skillz.

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SUPHAWURM! says: I think you just crushed his dreams. SUPHAWURM! says: And I like it. SUPHAWURM! says: Oh, and his hopes.

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I want B&W3 (if it ever sees the light of a DVD reader laser) to be full of life. By life I do not mean robotic behaviour. In B&W2 it seems as if the villagers are compelled to do what they do, instead of random behaviour. I want to see villagers bargaining with shopkeepers, I want to see people arguing and chatting, and mercenaries scatters all over the land. I want that.

everything you said, and what Khelder said about miracle levels, and what phil-the-man said, would be sooo good. but if it happened it would be forever before most people had good enough comps to run it. stil a great thought.

sorry for double post (edit time ran out) but what else would be great is alignment affected miracles. for example, if you are evil, then water would seem polluted and dirty, but clear and pure when you are good. it could work for pretty much everything: Fire - golden for good, dark and red for evil Lightning - white and shining for good, dark purple for evil(jagged too) Air - White or light purple for good, poisinous green for evil Meteor - Shining stars for good, dark chunks of rock for evil Heal - Rainbow for good, blood-coloured for evil and so on. just a thought

a heal speal should not be available for a evil good... sam for the meteor, but this miracle should not be available for good gods.

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yes, thats sort of what i was thinking, but because of that meutral would become the most variable option, because then you can do everything...unless the more you became the stronger spells like heal, water etc were, while the more you were fire and meteor would grow stronger? would it apply to creature heals too?

I'm only quoting selected parts:

 Quoting: Etimos

Black and White 2 felt far too much like a conventional Real Time Strategy game.

Quoted for emphasis.

It felt like the fact that you were a god wasnt really all that critical.

Agreed. Why are we so limited within our own sphere of influence?

...it seems more like burning ants with a magnifying glass.

Here I disagree. This is good. This is how it should be. What should also be, however, is, as you said, that there needs to be another god. There needs to be the other kid with his magnifying glass burning Your ants and you're burning His ants and then you get into a fight. And everybody burns the neutral ants

It was so frustrating catering after the food and wood desires of the villagers in the first game.

Agreed. This game allows for bigger cities, which are necessary with the all-too-limited influence.

1: - The Citadel:

You mention later on that there shouldn't be a god hud. What I really liked about the citadel in the first game was that it was that exact hud. It was seamlessly incorporated into the game and you could venture into it and see your people walk around, the land as it lay. You could see statistics and such. Alright, it wasn't really your hud, but it could very easily be made your hud. In the first, it merely showed statistics. In the second, it doesn't exist. In the third, it could be from where you make your choices. It could be an gameplay integrated "hud". It is your base of operations, after all.

A player would not automatically start with a citadel, but would gain the ability to build one as belief in him or her became stronger, typically when one of the villages he controls becomes a Town.

I love this idea. This also allows for the future idea of inserting random gods into the game, if a neutral city decides to find themselves another god. More on that later on.

2: - Impressiveness: In both black and white 1 and 2, you impress villages. I feel, however, that it would be more realistic to impress villagers individually.

I feel that a mixture of global and individual impressing would be best. Global would draw people to your city, but without this "omg, the whole city just left me!" but rather a "oh noes, people are trickling from my city to theirs!" After all, that's what happens in real life - immigration and emigration vary. People come and go. It's not as if one country suddenly decides it's going to migrate. That feels silly. Individual impressing should then be your means to take over another city. Soldiers should factor into this as an evil impressing force (invaders and whatnot).

Once the number of villagers who convert to worshipping you becomes higher than a certain percent, then the village will become yours, though those villagers who had not converted would still retain their old faith, or remain agnostic, until sufficiently impressed.

Introducing a complex personal belief system would be awesome. Each individual (or maybe groups of individuals - such as everyone in a house or cluster of houses) has a certain set of beliefs. I.e., with three gods, you'd get % belief in those three gods + % belief in no gods. So, one house might be 40% you, 30% 2nd god, 20% 3rd god, 10% atheist. This is what each person would be, so they'd be undecided until you could bring that % value above 50%. Atheists in this case should be worse than people who are undecided, so if the undecided merely live and do nothing else, the Atheists should be a power sink for you if they live within your lands. They're not necessarily spreading the idea of no gods existing, but I guess that could depend on individual alignment. They might go about killing believers or maybe they'd just hang around living their own lives. In any case, I'm rambling. Moving on.

3: - Multidimensionalism:

I like this idea. It fits into the idea that you are not the only god around and your influence is limited. You're more likely to act like Odin or Ra than the run-of-the-mill omnipotent god. I think there should be three paths however - good vs evil, pacifist vs militarist, deistic vs theistic (the more you act directly, the more you will influence the world. There should be means with which you could indirectly affect the world, e.g. disciples)

4: - Races:

Yeah, where is our variety and choice? I disliked the wonders of the first black and white. If only because they were so infinitely better than everything else and could be built endlessly. They are wonders, they should be awesome and everything, but they should be Unique.

5: - Miracles:

Hmm, dunno about the epic miracles or the wonders in here, but more miracle options would be good. I do like this option of using miracles aggressively or passively, as it is right now. Oh, and I want to be able to fry my own people dammit! why doesn't it work in this game?

6: - Lands:

I feel both were too small, compared to what I'd like. I think they should be massive and, respectively, your influence could grow faster and you'd feel more like a god over more.

7: - Villages:

Agreed that they do not seem realistic or complete. They're just little hovels waiting to be taken over and there's no interest in really building them up. With your own people far more self-sufficient, I feel that the enemy villages should be too, so I also agree with you on that point. I said I was going to talk about random gods suddenly appearing (as it figures into this part). Now I forgot what I was going to say, but it was supposed to go in here. Oh well.

8: - Gods:

Agreed, hence my comment that the people Are ants and there should be someone else trying to burn your ants. Only you're allowed to burn your ants!

9: - Menu Bars and Interfaces:

See above for my idea of using the citadel/main temple as a "hud"

10: - Auto-manage/Micro-manage:

Auto-build sounds good. I don't think it should be to maximum efficiency/happiness as you set it. I think you should be able to set it but: 1) the free will of the people would interfere with your indirect orders. Hence, unless you keep the sufficiently believing in you, they'd do what they'd prefer to. Also, unless properly educated or skilled, they should make mistakes. Disciples could gain experience and certain buildings could improve the overall efficiency, with a random factor to decide how many mistakes are made, based on the best possible performance, based on your indirect decision/their own personal desires.

11: - Setting:

Most importantly - Make the tutorial a seperate piece already! It took you two patches to get to the point where we can skip the tutorial efficiently. It's downright annoying to go through one hour of a tutorial you already know. An open-ended campaign would be great. However, I feel that it would be very difficult to make one, unless you had some general ideas of when/where the game could end. Uploading a god, while seemingly cool, also seems stupid to me. Don't allow people to update the most important adversaries If you want awesome adversaries, that's what multiplayer is for

12: - Special Effects:

I'm undecided here. If anything, use mana to create and have them be merely extra graphics.

13: - Customization:

Agreed. I think it should be a choice in architecture rather than race. Okay, so the people do make a minor difference, but it's really the architecture you want. The people then follow with the architecture. I think your temple should serve to set down rules and such. It might become limited in such an event, but maybe there's a way to get around this?

14: - Villagers:

Yeah, I always wonder why they go "need more mana..." ...well go worship then! I think they should only follow these values if they believe in you and even then, the strength of their beliefs will dictate how often they will do what they'd rather do themselves. If they get out of hand, you get to act god and go down and smash them up a bit.

15: - Creature:

I enjoyed being able to access the various learning stuff, but I am undecided on the miralces thing. It seems overpowered to be able to teach your creature miracles directly. However, it seems silly to just buy the miracle for your creature. Constant care for the creature should be a must. I feel that you should be able to train your creature to be one thing, but your creature would do things that it would prefer and while you could get it do something 99% of the time, there would be 1% chance it would do something else and everytime it does something, it reinforces the idea that it can do it, if you don't punish it. It might decide to smash a house every two hours, but as soon as you slap it for it, you should be able to tell it to fix it again. Also, I do agree that I dislike the gatherer, soldier, entertainer, etc... I just put him on freel will all the time and miraculously, he does exactly what I ask him to. I'd love to have a creature that questions me - These aren't just mortals, they are higher beings capable of challenging their gods and if their gods aren't taking care of them, they should challenge you. Ahh, that was too much rambling. I'll wander off now.

http://allboards.lionhead.com/showthread.php?t=180355&highlight=black+white This was one of the better idea threads out there but I have been gone a while so some new threads could have pooped up since then. I suggest you read through it before posting any ideas to make sure they haven't already been thought of. Plus, those "old" ideas might inspire you a bit. I was heavily involved in that thread (also, note my constant misuse of there instead of their lol). Edit: http://allboards.lionhead.com/showthread.php?t=170573&highlight=black+white Here is another one Edit: http://allboards.lionhead.com/showthread.php?t=103500&highlight=Unofficial+compendium And another one

My idea is that gods' powers grow according to what they're like, creatures do too. For example, if I had a god who always sent peopel to war he would start getting miracles that would help an army, perhaps one to summon an army. If I had a god that was good and loved his people, then different types of defensive miracles and structures would come into use.

Yes like Miracles that let you sommon a pack of hungry blood thirsty wolves or bears to help kill your enamies. I also think that miracles should be available to all but evil gods have stronger attacking miracles like fire, lightnin, meteor and gods get stronger good miracles like shield, heal and life.

No more "tribute". You should earn upgrades that are either good or evil through your gameplay. You start off with a nuetral city who change due to what you do, so why shouldn't your building options be the same. Just a thought.

Very good points you raised there - I totally agree with you on most of them, especially on the Creature AI. In B&W1 it was very easy to become attached to the creature, but now in B&W2 it seems alot less 'alive' and more like a machine.

Whats with all the BnW 3 threads? Can we just post in ONE of them? Esta gente, el sonido de "Bush" y de "Dick" como a tienen gusto del porn de los años 70.

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Perhaps we should put all the info into one thread, and get it stickied?

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Internet problems fixed...

Looks like I'm back.