Personally, I think the breadcrumb trail is a brillant idea to talk about. Implementing it into an RPG, not so sure. It seems to me it would take away from the immersion a bit, when everywhere you go there's breadcrumbs.  I'm not saying that it is a bad idea, just don't think it would work real well.

I know we won't get a mini map, but why not just have a large map when we go into our menus, look at where we would like to go, and if we are on a main quest have that spot marked with an X or something. This way when we just want to explore and travel with no particular direction we could do so, and without some breadcrumbs that just happen to be on the trails seemingly trying to pull us in that direction. That's what I think.

We don't have to have a breadcrumb trail, we just need a large map in the menu. And I know that PM will not want us to spend all our time in our menu system looking at a map, but really it takes away the same amount of immersion as a breadcrumb trail. I'm always going to wonder how the hell that got there?!

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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." (Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775)

I know the only problem ill have with it is that ill follow it whether I want to or not.. Because its there and its a trail.. It will probably get annoying seeing it everywhere I go.

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Mortalitis_Infinitas:

Then in that case you don't have a problem with the feature, just a problem with the lack of knowledge about it.  Can't say I disagree too much, we're all thirsty for knowledge around here.  But I'm saying that whatever the reasoning behind us not knowing the details, that doesn't change the fact that we still don't know the details.  Also, it's more than a few months.  We're probably looking at anywhere betwen 7 to 9 months wait, maybe more.

But quite so, more information would indeed be nice. 

I think it can very much go either way. I can't think of another way to provide the feedback needed without a trail. I don't know though because if it so too apparent then its ends up breaking immersion and distracting the player just as a minimap would but if it is too subtle then it may go unnoticed or be hard to distinguish.

I say a few as in a short amount as far as game development is concerned. 3-4 months doesn't seem like enough time to come up with a new navigation system and polish it. Thats why I would like the information as soon as possible so that if it is still possible to make adjustment they can based on the feedback from the community.

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Thank you Ralph H. Baer

It doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. The Breadcrum to the main map sounds like what the dog is to the mini-map. The dog is there to tell you about enemys, find treasure, point out something intresting ect. The Breadcrum trail sounds much more oraginal than having a main map like every other RPG. That is as long as it's on a toggle. I wouldn't want it on when I'm exploring or just messing around. But if you need to get to a quest quickly it would be great to just select the quest, have the breadcrum trail lead you back to the path then on to the quest along the path.

If a better system like the main map can be done well I like it. Look at a game like oblivion *shiver*. IT was a huge world, meaning if you wanted to get to a quest on foot it would mean a lot of checking the map, running down a path, checking the map again, running down a path ect. This problem isn't solved with a marker. How many people have just been following the marker and suddenly found that the path leads in the completely different direction to where you wanted to go, it just lead that way for a bit. Or, your going cross country and theres a huge great big mountian you now have to go all the way around just because you didn't spot it on the map

Ok, im out of things to say on this.

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Not in cruelty
Not in wrath
The REAPER came today;
An ANGEL visited
this gray path,
And took the cube away

Portal

Perhaps you could just toggle it off and on with one of the many unused buttons?

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So the last 3 pages summed up is basically this:

1. we need visual evidence of said breadcrumb trial before passing judgement.

2. If the breadcrumb trail is highly distracting and takes away fom the games immersion we would like a toggle on/off button.

3. Elderscrolls games had bad maps/navigation systems.

Does all that sound about right???

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Yeah I'd say that's about right.

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"Non Timetis Messor..."

TheKingofWorms:

So the last 3 pages summed up is basically this:

1. we need visual evidence of said breadcrumb trial before passing judgement.

2. If the breadcrumb trail is highly distracting and takes away fom the games immersion we would like a toggle on/off button.

3. Elderscrolls games had bad maps/navigation systems.

Does all that sound about right???

Oh, and add 'Mini-maps are shit'. 

Heh heh, yeah that all sounds about right. 

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I'd have to agree with the Molynator on that one, mini-maps are ***...

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"Non Timetis Messor..."

TheBowerstoneGuard:

I'd have to agree with the Molynator on that one, mini-maps are ***...

Sometimes they're annoying/sh*t, but not all the time.  Like in StarCraft they're really helpful actually. 

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Its not that its a bad idea I just think its pointless since They already have a dog for thier navigation system which i was really happy about but now i will proballly just look right at the trail I really hope it is invisible.

Man, I just can't find any info on this breadcrumb deal. I hope they giveus something soon.

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Portarock:

Then what if you don't have a dog?



This feature seems to have been imlemented as result as lost of feedback from not having a min map. If the dog doesn't provide enough feedback by itself it really looks like its going to be difficult for players with out a dog.

There is no choice when it comes to having a dog or not. Everyone will have a dog!

I would prefer it if you could switch your dog from 'explore mode' to 'guide mode'. When it's in explore mode it is like it is at the moment trying to lead you off the path and to interesting things. But when it is in 'Guide mode' it would display less curiousity to the world around and instead lead you to your quest target.

/2cents

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'The word 'Impossible' does not appear in my dictionary, madam. In fact, on closer inspection, everything from geology to nebula seems to be missing' - Dirk Gently in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agancy

Yeah, I'm hoping this will be dropped and replaced with the dog. If it isn't dropped, at least only make the feature available if you get rid of the dog. A mini map is better than a glowing trail. Think about it in a fantasy kind of way: If someone gives you a quest to go destroy a vampire infested cave, you have to find the cave yourself. You'd have to gather clues as to it's location, have someone guide you, or have something to track the vampires to their lair (the dog).  You guys ever hear the story of the famous Knight who found and slew the last dragon all because he followed a glowing trail? No, of course you didn't.

Please LH, no "breadcrumb trails".

/pray

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The Bag:

Fable III - wait... when?!?!?

Litigious:

Portarock:

Then what if you don't have a dog?

This feature seems to have been imlemented as result as lost of feedback from not having a min map. If the dog doesn't provide enough feedback by itself it really looks like its going to be difficult for players with out a dog.

There is no choice when it comes to having a dog or not. Everyone will have a dog! I would prefer it if you could switch your dog from 'explore mode' to 'guide mode'. When it's in explore mode it is like it is at the moment trying to lead you off the path and to interesting things. But when it is in 'Guide mode' it would display less curiousity to the world around and instead lead you to your quest target. /2cents

Maybe the problem with giving the dog more features is the fact that its AI is already bloated. PM said thats why they couldn't have two dogs in co-op. But yes a guide/explore mode button for the dog would be nice. That way there would be no tacky glowing trails. And another benefit of that would be the fact that giving your dog a command is a natural thing. So it wouldn't take away from the immersion at all......

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So the dog leads you off the beaten path, and not the other way around?? That seems pretty stupid in my opinion...I never thought of a breadcrumb trail, when the dog could have easily been given GPS navigation and directed us to places without maps or any on-screen indicator...

Anyways, Fablier brought up a nice idea which nobody bothered to look at...Why can't there be an "explore" and "quest" AI given to the dog?? People want to toggle on/off this breadcrumb feature, but instead, we can toggle the dog, then either, follow him or lead him...

Here's another question nobody has brought up...Does this mean we can only take 1 Side Quest on at a time??

Because the way I see it working is like this...I'm doing a quest for Mrs. Miggens in Bowerstone, my dog leads me off the path (because apparently that's his job) and I end up in Oakvale...An NPC needs my help and I take on that quest, so now we have 3 breadcrumb trails??

The reason I ask that, is because, if you have to select the quest you're doing in order to see the breadcrumb trail, then, WHY IN THE WORLD IS THE DOG LEADING YOU OFF THE PATH??

If you the player, have chosen to do the quest, why the hell is the dog interfering with that?? Wouldn't it be obvious to just have the dog lead you?? Am I missing something here or is this so useless that it's completely unneccesary??

Was there a big secret that goes along with this feature?? Is there something that's going to be revolutionary about this?? Because honestly, I see no point in this feature...And to reiterate something Fablier said, there is an extra key available, so the toggle button for quest/explore could easily be implemented for the dog...

Man, I'm so lost on why this feature is needed, I almost can't come up with a single reason why this feature works, or even how this feature works with some of the mechanics in Fable 2...

Dogs don't lead because you're the master. Dogs follow. So while doing your quest and walking along a path and your dog stops and expresses interest in something just keep following the breadcrumb trail and it'll run ahead of you again.

The breadcrumb feature is there so that it can lead you in the right direction on the way to the quest while the dog can show you some stuff you might want to look at along the way. If the dog did both jobs you wouldn't know whether it was showing you a quest or a point of interest. It's just easier this way.

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irishbull:

Peter is the Flavor Flav of hyping video games.

Litigious:

There is no choice when it comes to having a dog or not. Everyone will have a dog!

You are wrong.

I think part of the reason the dog leads on off the trail is because lionhead has also given it the jog of metal detector.

There needs to be some sort of GPS besides the dog because not everyone will play with it and then theres the fact that it not always be with you.

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Thank you Ralph H. Baer

   The way I think it will work is while adventuring the dog will just run up ahead of you and bark/growl at things that lead to places or things of interest like dungeons, ruins, buried treasure, ect. I don't think there will be an actual fairy dust trail as if Tinkerbell were flying ahead of you, that would just be annoying. But then of course, there is that yellow ball of light in the teaser trailer that seems to be leading the camera toward the fortune teller... But I could just be overreacting to what I saw.

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"Non Timetis Messor..."

yea i think the feature is neat, but it should be able to be turned off

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No, the breadcurmb trail doesn't have to do with the dog. According to the articles/podcst it is as you put it a "fairy dust trail".

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Thank you Ralph H. Baer

Howcome this feature wasn't showcased at GDC then? It's weird how you have GDC, (where there was a massive explosion of Fable 2 info) and then a couple of days later an article comes out briefly explaining a major game mechanic.

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"Non Timetis Messor..."

Omle:

If the dog did both jobs you wouldn't know whether it was showing you a quest or a point of interest. It's just easier this way.

Did you even read my post?? I said, to use Fabliers' idea where there is a "quest" AI and an "exploration" AI given to the dog...

It can be a toggle button that you choose to go between them...Not only that, I love how everyone always tears into Oblivion every chance they get, yet they had a great system to navigate you to quests...

Granted, they had a mini-map to help, but it doesn't negate the fact that when you chose a specific location, that was your only icon on the map aside from your "marker"...

There was no breadcrumb trail, there was no fairy dust, there was nothing, but an arrow showing you where you need to go...

Why can't the dog be the arrow?? Why can't the dog activate GPS when you activate the quest?? If I chose to do a quest, then OBVIOUSLY I wanna do the quest...

Why isn't the dog on the same page with the Hero when it comes to the breadcrumb trail?? Why all of a sudden is the dog doing his own thing and not helping me out for the quest??

If I need to get somewhere, why isn't the dog the one to lead the way?? I mean, seriously, if I'm trying to do a quest, why isn't the dog trying to make sure I don't mess up??

The dog doesn't help guide me to my quest, that's amazing to say the least...

TheBowerstoneGuard:

Howcome this feature wasn't showcased at GDC then? It's weird how you have GDC, (where there was a massive explosion of Fable 2 info) and then a couple of days later an article comes out briefly explaining a major game mechanic.

I think they were supposed to show it on Friday but instead they just rehashed.

sCM redruM while I do like the toggle idea better then dust, what about when/if you don't have the dog?

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Thank you Ralph H. Baer

Maybe the fairy dust feature is only for players who leave their dog behind? Just a thought...

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"Non Timetis Messor..."