This is not my work - I just bought the October edition of Edge magazine (Ireland/Uk edition) - Pages 56 thru to 63.
I read it so quickly the first time, I had to write it out to remember more..
I've blanked it out (just in case some of you reckon there are some spoilers in here).
Apologies in advance for the long post - and, this is for Clark1250 - please click "reply" instead of "quote" when responding


* START *


Be for ness' sake
Be , be bad, and all that jazz.  Tired of moral nonsense intruding on your videogaming?  So is Lionhead.  That's why you won't believe what Fable II will
ask of you

Remember when the idea of choice in videogames sounded impossibly liberating?  It's been a while since that heady concept really conjured up excitement.  A succession of disappointing titles that offered little more that stop-start moments in the midst of the usual mechanics struck the first blow; the adoption of this method of ‘choice’ in titles as distinct as Mass Effect and Overlord seemed to set a standard that, for all its competence, never felt anything more than standard; the freedom that Elite had hinted could become videogames’ future evolved into little more than binary variants and narrow narratives.

Fable, of course, promised that for every choice there would be a consequence – but ultimately only delivered the same divorced decisions.  So you might be forgiven for a little scepticism about Fable II.  But it’s a sunny day, we’re in Guildford playing the game, and prepared for anything except what happens next.  The game’s creative director begins an impression of Eric Cartman: “Will you do this thing and get this prize, or will you do this bad thing and get this prize?”  Dene Carter is, of course, talking about choices.  And he’s reaching a fine pitch of indignation: “Because that’s what games do to represent morality!  lord, I’m so glad that things really are that simple and nothing like religions have been built around such concepts.”  It’s by no
means a rehearsed response, but you suspect it’s something that’s been chundering around in the man’s head for an unhealthy length of time.

It’s clear why.  If there’s one overriding impression that Lionhead’s studio and staff leave you with, it’s that they really don’t think they did a enough job on Fable.  Any trepidation about criticising their baby is swept aside by the team itself quite violently sticking the boot in first.  Perhaps the biggest problem came to light recently: apparently, although approximately 30 per cent of players began the game following an path, by the conclusion between 90 and 95 per cent of players were .

It was simply too easy to slip into virtuous by default – both a conceptual and design problem – exacerbated by the way Fable would essentially stop at certain junctures and present the player with an unsubtle moral choice.  “We did an awful lot wrong with Fable,” admits Carter.  “We utterly failed at storytelling, the characterisation and script was poor, though maybe that was in the grand old tradition of JRPGs where you don’t know what the hell’s going on half the time.”

“Fable was too hard and fast, too binary”, says studio head Peter Molyneux.  “Kill this or save this or give this, and I wanted to make Fable II far more subtle that that – what I hope when you play is you don’t think: ‘Oh, I’m in one of those moral dilemmas now, and now I’m not’.  I hope you just play it – the ideal is for a player to just be dealing with situations without thinking about how they’re acting.”  This is most obvious in the childhood section, which after our playthrough turns out to contain many ‘trivial’ decisions we didn’t realise were being made.  It provokes one of those Molyneux moments: “My dream is really to make a game where people can be what they want to be and they don’t feel shackled by us as designers – that they have to be this sort of person, or do this in this kind of situation.”

To be fair to the original Fable, however, it’s not as if other games succeeded where it failed.  Every game that claims to present a moral quandary or offer a choice suffers from exactly the same disconnect between the main mechanics and the ‘choice’ moment.  It wasn’t surprising to find out that the Little Sisters were a late addition to BioShock, and the option to spare the odd unfortunate in GTAIV trivialised the thousands of others you kill without a second thought.  Games have simply never been very at making you feel responsible for your actions: you could count on one hand those where – forgetting about the idea of morality – any choice feels like it carries a weight of responsibility.  Those that do success often do it without any explicit prodding.  Shadow Of The Colossus makes the player feel bad for killing things without an NPC saying, “You’re a bad man”.  The world makes you feel bad: you’re an intruder, a murderous little so-and-so who relentlessly assaults enormous, power beasts in their homes.

So how do you bridge this divorce between a game’s mechanical interactions and its narrative paths?  Carter and Molyneux talk about specific incidents, which we’ll avoid for the sake of the experience.  But in conceptual terms what you will face in some of Fable II’s most crucial moments is a stark truth: ness isn’t rewarded.  It might be the right thing to do, but it’s often not the sensible thing to do, and you avatar’s entire character, both internally and externally, will be affected in a way that many players will find, at best, disquieting and, at worst, an outrage.  And if your choices affect your character’s physical wellbeing, strength and abilities – and not in the tired old ‘dark path – dark powers’ way – will you be content with just the warm glow of having done something right?  “The things that begin to happen to you and your final choice,” begins Louise Copley, Fable II’s executive producer, “they’re hard, hard things – but that’s the path of a hero.  Do you want to be one or not?”  You can lose almost everything.  You can lose your hard-won experience.  You can grow old and you can be permanently scarred.  You’ll be bullied by other characters, and they won’t hesitate to mock the type of player you are.  It’s taken a while to find expression in games, but now being isn’t about wanting to be and clicking the right option: it’s about self-sacrifice.  “Now it’s hard,” says Carter.  “So, you’re .  What if that stops you doing this?  Still ?  What if we take this, and this, and this from you?  Still ?”

Part of why this is so effective is that, while Fable II does offer the big dramatic moments where you’ll be aware of acting in a particular way, the vast majority of the game simply consists of situations to which you react without realising they’re ‘choices’.  In short, Fable II comes scarily close to building your character based on your behaviour rather than your conscious choices: the game reads responses that you’re not aware are being assessed.  It loses a tiny piece of its impact by having plus and minus markers appearing above surrounding characters’ heads after some events, though this does make you aware of how often your actions are being judged, and there are so many occasions where a little action can make a difference that it quickly fades into the background.  At the very beginning of the game, for example, a photographer asks you to pose for a picture to help him drum up some more business.  It’s easy enough, over in a flash, and off you go.  But if you take the opportunity to pull a face just as the shutter closes, you’ve been a bit naughty.

But, importantly, that’s naughty, and not : part of Fable II’s fleshing out of the concept is that the personality is now multilayered.  This means you can be a fundamentally character, but an ugly and corrupt one without any charm.  And you’ll look it.  “I hope you see some heroes that are magnificent and beautiful – but totally and utterly ,” says Carter.  “Pure in a kind of Aryan ideal way – they look beautiful but scary and will ultimately destroy the world.”  Again, however, it’s not all about the big things: while trying to demonstrate how expressions work, Molyneux is pulling a heroic pose in front of a lady and some children gather around to watch.  After holding it for a while, he messes up his timing: but rather than ‘failing’, the children fall about laughing at the foolish hero.  They don’t think he’s failed; they think he’s funny.  Molyneux’s temporary clumsiness has put his character on the path to being an entertainer.

“Basically, we’ve added more scales in there,” says Molyneux.  “So you can go through and be either pure or corrupt .  There’s wealth and poverty
which is really interesting in itself, because if you’ve got great wealth then how do you feel about that?  And how do people feel about you?  There’s an enormous number of stats that are being analysed – and there are things like people being corrupt and , but poor.  And what do you call that?  We knew it could, but we just didn’t realise that would happen.”  At this point he shows the morality curves of 50 testers in the first six hours of the game – they vary wildly, but what’s noticeable is there’s a significant proportion wavering on the side.  “There’s a lot of potential in morality, but again as a designer I just want people to play and not overthink that stuff – I don’t want this to be the equivalent of an arthouse film where often the enjoyment comes
after you’ve watched it.  That looking and analysing, I hate that.”

The subtlety of action and response exists throughout: simply run through a town scattering peasants everywhere and they’ll thing you’re rude; hang around a cash register for a bit too long and they’ll get suspicious; disappear behind a wall with someone (such as an irritating bard – “I dislike him a lot,” says a terrifyingly calm Molyneux, “and so I’m going to kill him”) and return solo, and they’ll wonder about what happened and possibly check it out.  By default your sword won’t injure townspeople (“to avoid accidents”) but the ‘safety’ is easily turned off and you can go loco.  At which point the guards quickly arrive, and you can either resist, pay a fine or do community service – “which is a whole other thread of activity you can go down,” says Molyneux, “but if I don’t do it in a certain amount of time I’ll become a fugitive.”

It would be easy to go into detail on how much more advanced the physical morphing of your character is in Fable II (apparently, the development team realised it may have made a slight error when all of Fable’s reviews featured screenshots of more or less identical characters).  The biggest change, however, is a simple one: you can now choose your hero’s gender.  “That was the main thing I wanted after Fable,” says Copley.  “We prided ourselves on our morphing hero and you could be this angelic guy or horrible guy, but you’re always a man, and I wanted to broaden it.”  If you were being cynical you might insist this is just a question of skins, but at its most fundamental level Fable is about people reacting to you – or, more specifically, to the character you present to them.  In the context of Fable II’s emphasis on things like marriage, something as simple as a gender change can alter this paradigm completely – and in some ways you might not expect.  “We won’t let you quest while you’re pregnant, but we make it very quick – it was one of those debates we had: ‘Do we want a labour minigame?’” laughs Copley.  “It’s about the way you morph, the way you develop yourself, the accessories, the clothes – having the choice to be female is about creating something you want to play the game with.  You’ve got a whole living situation there that will react to you differently and really tailor the experience.  It keeps you on the same journey we’ve carefully crafted, but allows you to really be who you want to be.”

That living situation, even in the few short hours we spent with it, is full of little secrets and caves, but what really makes it living is the constant NPC dialogue.  It still has more than a dash of ye olde Fablespeak about it (how could it not?) but the occasionally grating plumminess of the original has been toned down a little and, most importantly, it steers well clear of the pitfalls marked ‘forsooth’ and ‘verily’.  “It’s incredibly easy to write as if you’ve got a massive stick up your ***, incredibly easy, and I’ve seen so many people do that,” says Carter.  “Especially in fantasy – god, you can really sound like you’ve got a boner for yourself in three seconds flat.”  There’s also no repetition during our time in the town, not a single line, and Molyneux is keen to emphasise that the 120,000 lines of dialogue have been recorded for precisely this reason.  Will that bear out after days with the game rather than hours, though?  “Honestly?  I’m sure there might be some you’ll hear again in your entire play,” says Copley, “but we’ve balanced the stats so heavily, and we’ve so much dialogue that it’s quite unlikely unless you’re hammering the same interaction again and again and again and trying to break it.”

While trying to show off a few more specifics of the towns, Molyneux also demonstrates something that few people would expect: it’s all running regardless of where you are.  Using a debug menu to shoot into the air and scan across the world from a vantage point (and inadvertently demonstrating far more effectively than concept art ever could the stunning range and vision accomplished by the art team) you see villagers going about their business next to a shop; on a path there’s a band of rogues sitting round their campfire waiting for an unwary traveller; near the outskirts there are two children running around each other.  At this point, the player character is in a different part of Fable II’s world in another town: the simulation is running seamlessly.  It’s not particularly heralded by Molyneux (though he does insist that “this is simply how it has to be”), but more so than anything else shows the ambition and scales of the project, and hints at something more than exaggeration behind Carter’s assertion that “it’s ten times bigger than we thought it would be.”

It’s also a world that looks and feels very British, something not common in today’s big videogame productions.  John McCormack, Fable II’s art director, recalls that “at Big Blue Box [the company that began Fable before being assimilated into Lionhead] we had a place next to a canal and bridge, forests and fields.  You couldn’t help but be influenced: you just look out and there’s a guy going under a bridge in his barge with a forest behind him and a castle away in the back.  When you’re doing art, that comes to seem natural and deliberate – because nobody else was touching it.”  Copley adds: “There’s this sense of humour – I was going to say Pythonesque but it’s not, it’s different – we’ve always made this series not to be serious about.  It’s something you have fun with.”

McCormack also points out that the look of the game is as much European as British, particularly with regard to its architecture and creatures.  It’s a fair point.  More importantly, despite the fantasy genre being vastly oversubscribed, you can easily identify a piece of artwork as belonging to the Fable series.  And ‘belonging’ is a crucial part of identity.  “No orcs, no goblins, none of that,” begins McCormack.  “We try to think more supernatural: let’s take the basic idea of being a small nasty creature; why not write a story, like they’re really little children that have been possessed and live in caves?  Everything has a reason for being the way it is.”  McCormack’s time showing us the game is vastly different from that with the other members of Fable II’s team – panning into a foggy graveyard, his glee at the chunky headstones, crumbling brick and specific details that characterise it is obvious.  “It’s one of those places that, even though it’s not central in the story or anything, you know that graveyards are inherently spooky... It’s a labour of love for us because we were all so into it.”  He admits that the art team is ‘eccentric’ and that’s perhaps why the visual style of Fable has an edge to it: “We are geeks, and we play the fantasy games and really love them, but we wanted to do something maybe more European: the Brothers Grimm fairytales, the dark stories.”  In the planning stages Carter benevolently forced on the team works like The Company Of Wolves and Jim Henson’s The Storyteller.  “We were sitting there with our mouths open, thinking: ‘Nobody’s touched this’.  I mean, films have, but no one in games,” recalls McCormack.

That hints at what really sets Fable apart from superficially similar titles: it’s much more fairytale than fantasy.  “There’s something fundamentally different between them,” says Carter.  “Fairytales are about vagary, they’re about very clear moral themes, they’re about very specific and understandable bits of imagery, and then letting your own mind fill in the rest.”  The distinction is so much more semantic it goes to the root of why people unquestioningly accept ‘standards’ when it comes to the genre that should be the least standard of all.  “When Tolkien was writing The Lord Of The Rings, for example, all of their background is fairytale and that meant that – I’m sorry for using a pretentious phrase – it had a kind of truer heart,” says Carter.  “Everybody seems to have gone: ‘Years and years of folk tales and mystery and magical mirrors and iconic things are completely lost.  Look, orcs!’  Everyone works with orcs.  They’re Tolkien’s invention, why are they in your world?  Why do they belong there?  I’d rather use those totemic images – things that you almost kind of half remember from childhood.  It all comes from childhood images, really.  That’s why you so often get this childish layer over the top if it: people use these things without understanding where they came from.”

At this point our time at Lionhead is drawing to a close and the day ends, as it began, with Molyneux.  Fable II’s development period is the final topic of conversation: “I’ve learned a hell of a lot as a designer.  I came out of Fable in a pretty desperate position with the PR and the hype almost getting out of control, and there was this...” Problem?  “I didn’t think people would care about acorns growing into oak trees!  And that was never meant to... it was a feature we had in the game and we could do it but it was an insane, stupid feature and it took up so much time, and I cut it in the blink of an eye.  And that became such a focal... such a... that really fucked what people thought of Lionhead.  And me and the way I talk to the press.”

It’s a situation about which Molyneux may have become obsessive.  Tellingly, it’s the only section of the interview in which he curses.  “I felt I had to stop making games that were just a collection of interesting features that people like talking about and journalists like writing about but actually, when you get down to playing it, it is just that – a mad collection of little f****ng features that don’t actually, truly, fit together in any way.  What it is, is learning that I’m not making Populous any more where the story didn’t matter a jot.  Those games were about the core gameplay and that carried the whole game: Populous was 500 levels – you went from one to 500 and that’s it, that’s the game.  We are making entertainment now, and entertainment  is all about how you feel at the last word of this story.  I had to realise as a designer that I was making things to entertain people and that story and drama and memorable moments in a game are as important as ambient orbs and crime systems and getting married and having kids.  Perhaps far more important.”

It’s tempting fate to end by saying that Fable II looks like it might be the game Lionhead has always threatened.  “We finished Fable with so many ideas for stuff we could go on to do, and now we feel we’ve realised a lot of that – it’s all come together,” concludes Copley.  “We’ve really worked on our story, and I think that’s the major step forward and why we’re all so much happier with Fable II.”

The overriding impression we’re left with?  It’s not the story, or the graveyards, or the morphing, or the reactions of the NPCs, or the dancing, or the combat, or the vistas, or the dog, or the monsters, or the dialogue, or the minigames, or the co-op, or the swords, or the magic, or the meadows, or the crannies, or the guns.  All of those things have their place, but the one thing that really leaves a mark is a stark image.  It’s just a little bar being reduced in size.  It’s something that, after everyone’s played it, will become a new milestone for how games make their choices, and indeed their stories, matter.  It’s as simple as beginning to hit the player where it hurts.  It looks like Lionhead has.  And what do you know: it always was as simple as making sure that every choice has a consequence.

* END *

Edit: LOL - I have to laugh at the and words appearing in the middle of the "white" text above.

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There are only 10 types of people in the world:
those who understand binary
and those who don't.

byrneda 42

damn this is long & I'm in no mood to read right now.

HAHAHA, ITS A BIG BLANK PAGE!!!! HAHAHAHA, THATS THE GREATEST POST EVER!!!!!, but seriously, article once you actually highlight it, the bag would be proud.

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screw all your cool unique banners and gifs and s***, I'm just psyched for fable 3, the old fashioned way.

It showed up fine for me. 

Thanks for typing that up BYRNEDA, it was a read.  Not really any new information but some interesting opinions from Lionhead staff.

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Are you an ODST (fanboy)?

Wow... just... wow.... I had been doing my best to make myself less hyped and less impatient for Fable 2, but you seemed to have ruined that plan. *le sigh* I suppose that's my fault though. Should've stopped reading after the first line.

Anyway, a very read.

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"Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for President. One hopes it is the same half."

"I'm not sure I want popular opinion on my side -- I've noticed those with the most opinions often have the fewest facts. "

Very lol  it got me even more hype...

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Keep reading this yea keep reading keep reading keep going keep going my word keep reading this no don't stop reading this if stop your eyes well still read it thank you for your time you have just wasted some of your life.

Excellant read.
Thanks.

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I became insane with long intervals of horrible sanity-Edgar Allen Poe

Ok I've already heard more spoilers then I wanted to, so I ask are there any NEW spoilers or is it all the same stuff we have heard already?

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job, hope there is no Copyright issue with posting that.

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Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

wow, that was a pretty awesome article.  and PM swore!  Dood!  That's just crazy!

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"When people come over, I check them for weapons. If they don't have any, I lend them one for the day."

I dare anyone to ask me how much I've glitched in the Pub Games.

Wyvvie:

Wow... just... wow.... I had been doing my best to make myself less hyped and less impatient for Fable 2, but you seemed to have ruined that plan. *le sigh* I suppose that's my fault though. Should've stopped reading after the first line.

Anyway, a very read.

Hellz yeah, that is exactly what I thought! I just posted a long article about not getting excited and toning myself down and stuff, but I read this and and now, its fable time! bring on the hobbes!

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screw all your cool unique banners and gifs and s***, I'm just psyched for fable 3, the old fashioned way.

Epic. Truly a work of art. That was a great article, and a job well done. Thanks for posting that.

Now my anticipation just when over the edge!

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Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
- Albert Einstein

"You Gunna Die Man!"-Sam (1:06-1:07)
http://www.g4tv.com/xplay/previews/28400/Fable_2_Hands_On.html

sorry for the double post, but I had to point this out.

BYRNEDA:

 While trying to show off a few more specifics of the towns, Molyneux also demonstrates something that few people would expect: it’s all running regardless of where you are.  Using a debug menu to shoot into the air and scan across the world from a vantage point (and inadvertently demonstrating far more effectively than concept art ever could the stunning range and vision accomplished by the art team) you see villagers going about their business next to a shop; on a path there’s a band of rogues sitting round their campfire waiting for an unwary traveller; near the outskirts there are two children running around each other.  At this point, the player character is in a different part of Fable II’s world in another town: the simulation is running seamlessly.  It’s not particularly heralded by Molyneux (though he does insist that “this is simply how it has to be”), but more so than anything else shows the ambition and scales of the project, and hints at something more than exaggeration behind Carter’s assertion that “it’s ten times bigger than we thought it would be.”

Thats amazing! does this mean that it is entirely free roam and not just huge regions separated by walls? because alot of us though it would just be huge areas that you still had to go through a gate to get somewhere else, but this could thwart that theory.... possibly.

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screw all your cool unique banners and gifs and s***, I'm just psyched for fable 3, the old fashioned way.

Saidar:

Ok I've already heard more spoilers then I wanted to, so I ask are there any NEW spoilers or is it all the same stuff we have heard already?

I didn't see any spoilers, myself.

amazing find

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That was Epic awesome, this game is going to be really special

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Loyalty is all I have left - my highest held belief


I will name my dog BEARTHOR, he will have Thunder armor and Lightning claws, and he shall strike fear into the hearts of mine enemies!

Dman117:

sorry for the double post, but I had to point this out.

BYRNEDA:

 While trying to show off a few more specifics of the towns, Molyneux also demonstrates something that few people would expect: it’s all running regardless of where you are.  Using a debug menu to shoot into the air and scan across the world from a vantage point (and inadvertently demonstrating far more effectively than concept art ever could the stunning range and vision accomplished by the art team) you see villagers going about their business next to a shop; on a path there’s a band of rogues sitting round their campfire waiting for an unwary traveller; near the outskirts there are two children running around each other.  At this point, the player character is in a different part of Fable II’s world in another town: the simulation is running seamlessly.  It’s not particularly heralded by Molyneux (though he does insist that “this is simply how it has to be”), but more so than anything else shows the ambition and scales of the project, and hints at something more than exaggeration behind Carter’s assertion that “it’s ten times bigger than we thought it would be.”

Thats amazing! does this mean that it is entirely free roam and not just huge regions separated by walls? because alot of us though it would just be huge areas that you still had to go through a gate to get somewhere else, but this could thwart that theory.... possibly.

I doubt it, although the regions could just be ridiculously large. I think it would just be great to play as a trader, exploring all the lands of Albion, just to see how the Npcs react with eachother.

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Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
- Albert Einstein

"You Gunna Die Man!"-Sam (1:06-1:07)
http://www.g4tv.com/xplay/previews/28400/Fable_2_Hands_On.html

Not much spoilers, I think you could have let it in black letters, my eyes are killing me, but great article none the less, really interesting.

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“I am the ripper, the tearer, the slasher. I am the teeth in the darkness! The talons in the night! My name is strength! And lust! And power!"

woohoo a professional article with the word chunder in it that's gold

find cheers mate

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olwiseman:

damn this is long & I'm in no mood to read right now.

thats how i feel right now

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Saidar:

Ok I've already heard more spoilers then I wanted to, so I ask are there any NEW spoilers or is it all the same stuff we have heard already?

There no new spoilers i didnt really read anything about story line ether other then the scar or save a girl bit but thats old.

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Dman117:

sorry for the double post, but I had to point this out.

BYRNEDA:

<snip>

Thats amazing! does this mean that it is entirely free roam and not just huge regions separated by walls? because alot of us though it would just be huge areas that you still had to go through a gate to get somewhere else, but this could thwart that theory.... possibly.

No.  If you watch this video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PMZF9Avdd2k&
and watch from 3 mins 44 secs.

The interviewer asks "how big is this world" and PM goes into "no-clipping mode" (debug only) and flies over the region he is currently in - whilst doing so, you can see how everyone in that region is doing their own thing.
Simulating life (OT: Read Dmitri reference).

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FOUNDHOPE:

Saidar:

Ok I've already heard more spoilers then I wanted to, so I ask are there any NEW spoilers or is it all the same stuff we have heard already?

There no new spoilers i didnt really read anything about story line ether other then the scar or save a girl bit but thats old.

I see spoilers as being anything that gives away the inner-workings (mechanics) of Fable II, quests, revelations about things not mentioned before, anything that detracts from the virgin experience of Fable II.
Here are some of which I believe are spoilers:

There is a mentioning in the childhood regarding a camera.
The bit about what happens if you don't pull off a successful pose (PM demonstrating 'failure' as being comical).
The mentioning of all the stats that are being monitored by the game.
The idea that by understanding the way in which Fable II functions, that one could not act naturally, and instead of enjoying Fable II the way it's meant to be played, they'll be "looking out" for clues and cues on when their character changes from being to etc. (Read the subtlety of action and response.)
- hanging around a cash register
- running thru a town
The revelation that you cannot quest when pregnant.
How to possibly break the dialogue generator by performing the same interaction over and over and over again.

I am sure that there are people out there who avoid the spoilers completely, so I prefer to sway to the side of caution.

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There are only 10 types of people in the world:
those who understand binary
and those who don't.

byrneda 42

[edit: sorry for the double post ]

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There are only 10 types of people in the world:
those who understand binary
and those who don't.

byrneda 42

The ending note made me all warm inside.

Very great article.  Thanks for typing it up for us!  There was a very minor spoiler about the origin of Hobbes (maybe) but it's all .

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My.. this is going to be hard on me.. I do tend to want and be the guy... but saddly Part of does have that dark side were If I had to pick between a uber rare weapon that one of a kind.. and save a group of kids... the weapon may win that debat.

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