Edit: Most of the little ***s are d-i-c-k. If you make it plural that seems to make it morally acceptable though.

I really am. I mock folks, I laugh at 'em. I tell them they're re-friggin'-tarded.

“INTERNET + YOU + ANONYMITY = FUCKWAD” ... right?

'Cept, I dunno if I'm a FUCKWAD, exactly.

Anyway, point being, what does that say about me? Does it mean really, truly deep down in my heart cockles I'm a ***? I'm a pretty copacetic guy to chill with in the real life. People say a lot of re-friggin'-tarded in the real life too, ya know? Don't get me wrong, it's not as if I don't have opportunities to trash somebody's *** face-to-face. It's just a combination of not wanting to see their actual hurt feelings and not wanting to interact with them on an intellectual level. On the nets, I'm sorta removed from both of those. Which is, I guess, is the typical explanation for Internet douchebaggery.

 I kinda wonder, however, if it's really such a baaaad thing though? Because, it's a two-way street after all, huh? Namecalling on the nets isn't gonna provoke the same emotional response you'd get out of a dude(tte) in real life. It's just not gonna hurt 'em as much, because of that anonymity that they also have. So, I get to tell these douchebags how I really feel about their dumb ideas and they get to not be so offended by it as if I had done so in real life. Because, when it comes down to individuals, I can get along with anybody. If I met these people in real life, I'd see the whole ... them. I like the 'them', as it were. I have a very conciliatory personality, I'm compatible with anybody. My best friend in the real life is actually a Christian and I love him to death. Conversely, the gal who I dig is sort of a drug addict. 

 So, I'm (we, the dicks are) not really attacking a person as a whole, but rather their dumb f****ng opinion on particular particulars.

 And I say that's what the internet is for, goddammit! It's a comfy, soft safety blanket where we can all say what we truly feel about things without the need to account for everyone's 'ittle, baby feelings. BY GOD, is it wrong for anyone to say what they really feel? *** NO! The nets are the perfect conduit for ... reality. Where we can make 9/11 jokes because Freud says we want to. Where there's no political correctness and n-- it's like Rapture (see; Bioshock, Andrew Ryan), possibly the post-'59 New Years celebration Rapture w/mass murder. 

 'Course there are the microcosms, the forums. There, we have to achieve a sort of equilibrium between what we want to say and what we can say, because we all want to be part of the given community for whatever reason. We do get to know people. We do see multiple sides of 'em. We can't go blasting every philosophical outlier with our best bombastic scathing tongue lashing. And we all have our different ways of doing so.

 Kaiser: The Kaiser is a f****ng snake. The man is a B-2 stealth bomber of posion spit. I have never, ever and will likely never see, the Kaiser directly call someone out for retardation. If the Kaiser so chooseth to talketh the smack, he does so with such razor-edged precision and subtlety that it's scarcely observable with the goddamn naked eye. The Kaiser, appears, somehow, to be agreeable to every conceivable opinion and ideology anyone has ever had. Quite frankly, the Kaiser is potentially the biggest *** in this whole joint and we just don't know it.

Del: I like this ***. He is generally a nice dude to the people who are nice, but have retarded thoughts. He is not, however, nice to dicks (i.e. me) who have, what he perceives to be, retarded thoughts. Which is, I guess, pretty logical. In all honesty though, I can't remember really having been a *** at all when I made that thread about nihilism that got him to be pissy with me to start. He just said I was stupid, right out of the gate. So, maybe you just have to push the right button with Del to get him into his own personal ***-mode.

BASICALLY GUYS I have just made vague statements about the validity and merits of internet dickery and I think it's a pretty weighty, stimulating, valuable topic about which we may converse. Especially considering we're all part of these little, relatively isolated Off-Topic digs and we all have had conflicts with someone herein.

---

If you don't understand the thread, you're probably best not posting at all. (Or maybe that's just karma for Orcid).

Now, at this point I could say 'oh so this is pseudo intellectual debate day!' or perhaps I could say 'Oh look, Orcid is bucking for attention!', but instead I'll entertain your thread for what it is.

All I can say is, if you want to behave like this just because it's the internet and you can then fair enough. But that doesn't change peoples perception of you. I really don't see the point in creating a social distinction between real life conversation and internet conversation. Perhaps that's because I've developed real life relationships with people through the internet, and developed already existing relationships through the internet (like friends who have gone to other countries). If they started behaving weirdly, just because they're using a computer talking to me, then they're as as blocked (unless it's all in jest).

Some of us prefer to behave exactly as we are in real life on the internet, to a degree. Of course it's a completely different way of communicating, and I do communicate differently on a forum than I do in instant messaging or in voice conversation and then different again in face to face voice conversation.
But really, you'll simply have to accept the fact that due to the posts you make in certain threads, I view you the way I do. What you write defines my perception of who you are. I don't care who you claim to be in real life, that means nothing via this kind of communication. What matters is how you present yourself here and wherever else we might meet. If you're fine with being thought of as a twat then that's fair do's, but don't expect us to automatically think 'Oh, he's just being like that because it's anonymous, he's probably alright in real life.' No, I'm going to assume you're a twat in real life too, and there's nothing you can do about it.

So sure, I can see why you're perfectly comfortable doing what you do, but don't think it validates what you're doing in everyone else's eyes. (and by making this thread, you prove you're not really nihilistic, since you feel you must justify some sort of moral position. )

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The only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one.

I think that being a twat on a computer is a very appealing thing. I find myself being a twat in computer games all the time (and enjoying it for that matter).

Mind you however that I am a twat in computer games towards AI and not towards other online gamers or at least I try not to be.

Just because the internet disconnects you from the more sublime emotional consequences your action may have on others does not mean those consequences don't exist.

Provoking, teasing, insulting or just getting on someone's nerves as the same 'karmic' weight as it would have if you were doing it in the same room.

So if being anonymous is a excuse for you being a twat then you are still one. Normally I would suggest that if you are not a twat in what you call real life it is only because you don't have the stomach to deal with it's consequences first hand.

... and until Molyneauxs wet dream comes true, everybody posting here is a real person, with real emotions.

So yes you can be a twat in here for all I care but it doesn't make you any less of a twat when you log off.

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The_Orcid:

Anyway, point being, what does that say about me? Does it mean really, truly deep down in my heart cockles I'm a ***? I'm a pretty copacetic guy to chill with in the real life. People say a lot of re-friggin'-tarded in the real life too, ya know? Don't get me wrong, it's not as if I don't have opportunities to trash somebody's *** face-to-face. It's just a combination of not wanting to see their actual hurt feelings and not wanting to interact with them on an intellectual level. On the nets, I'm sorta removed from both of those. Which is, I guess, is the typical explanation for Internet douchebaggery.

 It's the typical explanation for most inhuman crimes, too, so I'd say yes deep down you would be a *** IRL, too, given the chance to.

I kinda wonder, however, if it's really such a baaaad thing though? Because, it's a two-way street after all, huh? Namecalling on the nets isn't gonna provoke the same emotional response you'd get out of a dude(tte) in real life. It's just not gonna hurt 'em as much, because of that anonymity that they also have.

That's a faulty reasoning, all you can securely say is that you don't have to see their reaction which might not differ much from if you had verbally attacked them face to face, so no the actual difference is nil. The internet only gives you the anonymity that you need to strip off societal pressure and to behave as you really would.

You can only assume that others are reacting as unaffected to namecalling as you do.

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"Let me tell you this: if you meet a loner, no matter what they tell you, it’s not because they enjoy solitude.
It’s because they have tried to blend into the world before, and people continue to disappoint them."

Now i get it. When faced with a giant wall of text it confuses me even once i've read it

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PM me if you want an invite to lockerz!

Daninsky:

 It's the typical explanation for most inhuman crimes, too, so I'd say yes deep down you would be a *** IRL, too, given the chance to.

I  WILL GET TO THIS IN A SECOND! But, I do want to lol at your comparison between over-the-nets dickery and the Holocaust.

That's a faulty reasoning, all you can securely say is that you don't have to see their reaction which might not differ much from if you had verbally attacked them face to face, so no the actual difference is nil. The internet only gives you the anonymity that you need to strip off societal pressure and to behave as you really would.

You can only assume that others are reacting as unaffected to namecalling as you do.

 Allow me to test my hypothesis. This is SCIENCE, so take a step back.

 You're a ***.

 Now, how do you feel? You feel loose? You feel ... dandy? I bet'cha! Granted, if I was calling you names in real life it probably wouldn't affect you either.

But, I guess namecalling isn't really what I'm going for here. I'm talkin' more ... ideas. If you told me about your secret desire to be a cranberry farmer in Maine and I said you were stupid, would you really feel as bad as if I had done so in real life? Nah. 'Cause I'm some Internet dude. You possibly lacked the chutzpa to tell people in real life.

 I'm not trying to defend my behavior here, gentlemen, so you can get off your "uh-oh is Orcid worried about Karma" bandwagon right quick.

'Cause I ain't. You suck.

What I'm trying to do, is suggest that people genuinely are more open to criticism as much as I'm more open to giving it ...because of the very same supposed anonymity that I have. And what evidence do I have?

 WELL, I do declare that I, myself, am more open to criticism. I ignore it. Because it comes from say, Del. Well, ignore is too harsh. I take it for what it is. You can say some folks aren't more receptive to bluntness (i.e. people who kill themselves because they had their grammar corrected), but they're already screwed up anyway and don't count. Any other evidence? The fact that I'm more open to giving criticism. It stands to reason there's an interrelation hur.

 Now, I do find it interesting you suggest I would behave as I really would in real life with no social pressure ... then I guess that's not real life anymore, is it? I think you're using faulty reasoning to compare the nets and the real life. They're two separate entities defined by that very lack of societal ... pressure. Should we be applying what we know/feel about interaction in real life to a place so different as the Internet?

Plus, lest we forget that I'm not anonymous either. I'm The_Orcid. ~_^. Wubbly Red Thing. I've been on this forum for six years in one form or another and I consider guys like Amaunator a kind of faux-acquaintance (Amaunator is sweeeet dude. Holla', Ammy!), and I consider folks like fel64 to be one of my very bests friends. I consider this board to be my ...  online home. My hub. 

 This place has a weird, creepy sentimental value. I guess there's a sort of personal vendetta against the level of suckitude it's descended to. I don't have respect for the perceived perpetrators. It's really only on this particular forum where I am a *** whatsoever (nets wise).

But what I'm not trying to do here is defend myself, I was more making a point about what anonymity is. 





 

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I remember when you were a really nice guy, so I'd say it's more frustration at how things have changed on this forum that's making you feel dickish towards people when you comment.

I have the same problem with this forum, and a couple of others.

I'm guessing you're not the most receptive to change in your life, eh Jamie?

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I only wrote this because I hate you.

LethargicMotivator:

I remember when you were a really nice guy, so I'd say it's more frustration at how things have changed on this forum that's making you feel dickish towards people when you comment.

I have the same problem with this forum, and a couple of others.

I'm guessing you're not the most receptive to change in your life, eh Jamie?

ACK! I reeeaaaalllly want to debate the merits of Internet bluntness and the dichotomy between interaction in real life versus the nets. Not my personality quirks.

But actually I think I am very receptive to change. Part of my conciliatory personality I mentioned. Going from awesome to suck I don't view so much as change as much as I view it being going from awesome to suck. ~_^!

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This post has been deleted.

So essentially your point is the same as this:

http://community.lionhead.com/forums/thread/3363983.aspx

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"Let me tell you this: if you meet a loner, no matter what they tell you, it’s not because they enjoy solitude.
It’s because they have tried to blend into the world before, and people continue to disappoint them."

Daninsky:

So essentially your point is the same as this:

http://community.lionhead.com/forums/thread/3363983.aspx

No.

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Okay...

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"Let me tell you this: if you meet a loner, no matter what they tell you, it’s not because they enjoy solitude.
It’s because they have tried to blend into the world before, and people continue to disappoint them."

But then again, throughout both of your posts you are trying to defend yourself.

What I'm trying to do, is suggest that people genuinely are more open to criticism as much as I'm more open to giving it

And in my experience, that is actually completely wrong. Congratulations on disconnecting yourself emotionally from online interaction, I can do that too, it's not very difficult. I just prefer not to kid myself that it's truly different, that once you touch a computer you become less human.

There is a reason IM programs have block lists. There is a reason you can set privacy options and deny friend requests on Facebook, there's a reason you can normally set people on ignore on forums (not this one, obviously). It's because we don't really become less human, and because what people say does effect us for better or for worse. (As an aside, I feel that the rewards of being open online outweigh those of being closed).

I'd pretty much guessed the whole personal vendetta against the level of suckitude thing. I just choose to make the best of a bad situation. I haven't been here quite as long as you have, but I have seen things descend quite badly around here (Around the time the forum software changed was a big descent, fancy that).

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The only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one.

deliriousstudios:

But then again, throughout both of your posts you are trying to defend yourself. And in my experience, that is actually completely wrong. Congratulations on disconnecting yourself emotionally from online interaction, I can do that too, it's not very difficult. I just prefer not to kid myself that it's truly different, that once you touch a computer you become less human.

 Is that what'cha call it? Is it really less human, or is it kind of like one of those action figures with the limbs that you can pop on and off and replace with tentacles or big guns? Empathy is part of our make-up, you're right. So are the darker things, things we repress because society tells us to. It's a response to raw, unadulterated humanity. Civilization couldn't function if the individual came outta the closet. 

 I don't see it as a disconnection. Sure, my empathy is ... lax ... er, but I replace one thing with another. Truth. Reality. Genuine feeling. That's just as human. I'm not talking about spamming the forums with gay porn videos or owls saying "YA RLY" ... I'm talking about saying what I want to say. 

 If someone posts a thread about religion, I'm commenting that topic, I'm picking on that idea. Sure, I call the person re-friggin'-tarded, but if you can't tell I'm a sarcastic kinda dude by now, well, you have some analytic dilemmas that are beyond the scope of this conversation. 

 

There is a reason IM programs have block lists. There is a reason you can set privacy options and deny friend requests on Facebook, there's a reason you can normally set people on ignore on forums (not this one, obviously).

 You're right. And it's not there because someone hurt our feelings. It's there for someone who annoyed us with bullshit. Right, Del? You quiped you'd use it one me, right? Well, have I hurt your feelings, Del? Or, am I just annoying you with bullshit? Exactly, my friend.

 

It's because we don't really become less human, and because what people say does effect us for better or for worse.

 One thing with another.

And it's not about humanity, it's about the forum in which humanity can participate. This is an entirely different setting, an entirely different Universe of interaction. It shouldn't abide by the same strictures that govern mores and folkways somewhere a world apart.

 (As an aside, I feel that the rewards of being open online outweigh those of being closed).

Do tell.

---

I think some people spend a tad too much time on this forum.

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PM me if you want an invite to lockerz!

sim656:

I think some people spend a tad too much time on this forum.

Agreed, when I first read this I thought of it as Orcid trying to find some justice in his *** -ery on an internet forum.

Personally, I can come off as a *** sometimes, but it's usually not on purpose, and I realize it after I say it and regret it. Usually.

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I think we're all guilty of it from time to time. 

While I may be more verbose about it on the forums, I do it the same way in real life, even if more subtly. 

---

Hang on, back the *** up a moment.

Which action figure can you pop the arms and legs off and replace with tentacles? He sounds awesome!

The block list is there to block people. The list doesn't judge. The person who manages the list judges. So it can be for people who hurt your feelings, annoyed you with bullshit, gave you a pineapple when you asked for a mango, have names that sound like they're part of a kiddie porn ring and you don't want to have that conversation with your wife, have names that sound like a 15 year old nympho school girl and you don't want to have that conversation with your wife, your wife who you seem to not want to have conversations with etc etc.

I thought the only person who used that "People don't get me" arguement was Diane Keaton, and even then it's only because of the self-indulgent upstate-new-york author-goes-home-for-christmas twaddle she keeps turning up in?

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People don't get me.

_              _
  \_(o_0)_/

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The_Orcid:

People don't get me.

_ _
\_(o_0)_/

Oh Boo whoo ... (I am being sarcastic here, I think you were too )


No people don't get you cause you seem to think that calling someone ridiculous is as valid as pointing out that you find their points of view ridiculous. Furthermore you assume that because you have an emotional detachment when you sit behind the computer every normal human being should react the same.

I totally agree that the rules of engagement are slightly different on the web ... but calling someone an insulting name will still be insulting and if you do it than yes you are twat.

If you don't do it outside of this virtual world then you are still a twat you just don't bring your inner twat out in front of other people and you can find any excuse for why you don't.

I came in the forums together with a bunch of extremely annoying fellow Fable flock and I soon came to realise that conversation outside of the F2 forums was actually far more interesting and it was actually worth posting rather than just lurking around and reading in the search for info.

Like yourself I have made friends here and when I hear about the old forums I have to agree that they sound much better than what it turned out.

Having said this, I understand your frustration, but even if your frustration is the reason why you are a twat the fact remains that you are still a twat and being a twat just ain't nice.

---

I see your point about the dark side of humanity, but it raises a point in my mind:
So essentially Orcid, you are saying that you would actually treat certain people's opinions the way you do in real life, if those social barriers weren't there? You're saying that on here you're unleashing your darker side, which is very much as human as everything else?
I have many many thoughts and fantasies that I'd want to try. They're very dark, and you'll just have to take my word for it. I think this is probably normal for everyone. But this doesn't mean I'd ever truly want to act on these fantasies in any social setting. Even if these social barriers were suddenly taken away, I would not act upon them. Why? Because my empathic side is stronger then my apathetic side.

I don't think I've ever had my feelings hurt on these forums. But I have through the internet, mostly from people I once thought I trusted. But that happens in real life too. You may consider this an entirely different universe, but I simply cannot agree. When a friend says they want to meet me in town via Facebook, I go there and we meet and they're real. It was a real conversation. If they told me I'm an idiot and they hate me and remove me from their friends list, if they behaved any differently in real life towards me I'd be incredibly confused. On a forum like this, I don't know you of course, but because of my true real interactions with many people on the internet I can't convince myself that you're not a real person, and that these 'dark feelings' that make you be a pillock on here are not actually representative of you.

Do tell.

Let's just say I'm now with someone I want to spend the rest of my life with. We're talking soul mate territory. I wouldn't be as happy as I am if I had closed myself off to feelings actually existing through the net.

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The only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one.

The_Orcid:

People don't get me.

_              _
  \_(o_0)_/

Why don't you try contribing something worth while to this forum instead of bashing other users. If you think name calling is way unleashing your dark side you need to grow and stop being childish. If you think berating people for their opinions is way to get your rocks off, you need serious help.

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http://mr-thump-2.mybrute.com Try to beat me if you can!

MrThump2:

Why don't you try contribing something worth while to this forum instead of bashing other users. If you think name calling is way unleashing your dark side you need to grow and stop being childish. If you think berating people for their opinions is way to get your rocks off, you need serious help.

I think you just both insulted him and made a poor contribution to this forum just now ...

I think wether or not it is ok being a twat (and I keep using twat cause it makes more sense than readin 3 times *) is not the issue with the OP ... at least not the one I picked up. By all means Orcid be a twat ... I think you shouldn't but hey as long as you are still within forum rules do feel free to express your dark side.

What I do think is that if you are a twat here then YOU are a twat.

If people outside the forum don't get to see that you are a twat it doesn't make you any less of a twat.

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Swordbane85:

sim656:

I think some people spend a tad too much time on this forum.

Agreed, when I first read this I thought of it as Orcid trying to find some justice in his *** -ery on an internet forum.

Personally, I can come off as a *** sometimes, but it's usually not on purpose, and I realize it after I say it and regret it. Usually.

I just generally lie a lot

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PM me if you want an invite to lockerz!

goncalobms:

MrThump2:

Why don't you try contribing something worth while to this forum instead of bashing other users. If you think name calling is way unleashing your dark side you need to grow and stop being childish. If you think berating people for their opinions is way to get your rocks off, you need serious help.

I think you just both insulted him and made a poor contribution to this forum just now ... I think wether or not it is ok being a twat (and I keep using twat cause it makes more sense than readin 3 times *) is not the issue with the OP ... at least not the one I picked up. By all means Orcid be a twat ... I think you shouldn't but hey as long as you are still within forum rules do feel free to express your dark side. What I do think is that if you are a twat here then YOU are a twat. If people outside the forum don't get to see that you are a twat it doesn't make you any less of a twat.

And you didn't? I don't see your point. I didn't make a poor contribution to this forum. I just simply stated to him to contrbuted something worthwhile to this forum other than making an a** out of himself. Yes he free to say what he wants, but insults no I consider that flaming, but again that my opinion.

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http://mr-thump-2.mybrute.com Try to beat me if you can!