As I´ve watched some of Peters interviews, he usually seems to have the same message; "It´s all about the experience". The proplem is that though Fable 2 was pretty and had things, it also had some major flaws in my eyes. So here is my thoughts that would´ve improved the game:

Conversation system:
Sure we get the thumbs up and thumbs down thingy, and yeah this could make the game more complex but what is the bad point in that ? I would´ve loved to actully TALK to the people of albion instead just fart on their faces for their amusement. These kind of things get you also emotionally involved with the world of RPG and this basic element is missing in the game. I understand that the charcter is mute, but that really isn´t an excuse. There are other games too where there are the options you want to say and the NPC only has voice overs. I so much would´ve loved to talk to hammer and the Thief Hero about their life and what happened in the last ten years.

Better Graphics:
The game had a very very very lovely artistic design, but where is the tech ? Rare is right in the same country(same town too ?) with Lionhead and has some awesome graphic technology knowledge. Banjo-kazooie Nuts and Bolts was a medicore game sure, but no one can argue it didn´t look like a pixar film at times. Fable 2 could´ve used more atmosphere, dramatic scenery and more lively water effects. The lighting was pretty and had that story book feel, also at night I liked the lamp posts that shimmerd in the dark. We need more of those. Spider webs on chairs, hunting trophies on walls, family pictures on desks , flower center pieces on tables, sewer holes in the streets that reek steam, plagues that move in the wind. Those kind of little details would´ve made anyones day.

More in depth character attributes:
So you can get fat, thin, , and muscle in this game. That´s awesome. Now that we need is consequenses for those things. A fat person shoudn´t be tackeld so easily and walks a little differently, a muscle guy should bounce enemies higher into the air, character should have a different posture than a guy, and a thing guy is pushed over more easily in the crowds of the streets. Also a little more dynamic and more in depth combat attributes would be nice, and it could be very simple !

Agility =  could use the bow better and could run a bit faster and dodge

Strenght = could lift objects and throw stuff like tree trunks and boxes

Wisdom = potion mastery, smoke/etc bombs, molotov coctails, and spell use of course.

And so on.. The morale system is great but could use a little work. No one in albion reminds me of my deeds. "You´re that murderer" , "Didn´t you save Little Timmy a while ago from wolves ?". More consequenses on moral choices too. Not just cellery and beef, thin or fat, ugly or beatiful.

And what is up with the food ? We don´t have to eat it. We can heal ourselves with potions. The food system is nonsense. It´s like in Zero Punctuation review he said : "YOU CAN!!! but why bother?"

Soundtrack:
Was epic. Nothing to complain. More tracks please ?

The Dog / companion
I liked the dog, though I didn´t get attached to the dog itself, I  got attactched to its skills to sniff out treasure. The dog  should have more emotions. For instance, when your character is knocked out, the dog should run infront of the knocked out character and growl  to defend his master and attack the one who knocked you out, show that it cares. And when the characters health is low, the dog could lick the hand or something to show it is worried about you. These kind of things makes a dog your best friend, a TRUE RELATIONSHIP. Throwing a ball around from time to time isn´t a relationship. Even in Tales of Vesperia I feel that the main character is more attatched to his dog because he talks to it about his thoughts (love that game).

Buying property:
This is actully done pretty well in the game. But the same thing here is that "YOU CAN!! why bother?" . Sure you get loads of cash, but for what purpose? In this section I can´t think of anything really. I guess there should be a max number like 5 houses you can buy in the game from different regions, and could use those as storage or safe houses. You don´t need to be a "king or queen" of albion. That dosen´t really go with the story anyway. A lonely beggar kid is 20 years later a king ? Cliché even in the Disney department.

Seasons:
Winter, spring, summer and fall. Could last like 3 hours of gameplay, and would require different kind of clothing so you wouldn´t be too cold or hot. A simple temperature mechanic.

Well there it is . I written enough stuff here and I´m tired to think anything else. Hope this gets in some sort of lionhead meeting table for discussion ! Cheers for a game and hope the next one will be more epic

Very nice post. I especially agree with you about relationship development and dialogue options. Lionhead has built a very game and they've introduced some concepts that can't be found anywhere else in the gaming world. However, Lionhead needs to step it up and take all of their ideas a step further. I would not be disappointed to find out that Fable 3 won't come out for a few more years so they can have the time to put out a completely immersive game straight from the launch date.

wall of text LOL

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-DR T JR-
self proclaimed king of gimmicks

I agree with you that they should expand on the dog/pet element. Maybe in the next game they can give you a choice of what animal that you want, which could be decided somehow based on your storyline decisions or something similar. Not just something like the breed of the dog, but different species entirely.

I'd like to have a bird that could peck out my enemies' eyes.

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"Anything in life is either illegal, immoral, or fattening." - Murphy's Law

The expression system could be much improved. When you meet Theresa at the clocktower, you give her a thumbs up or down about how you feel over ending human lives for the first time. That's weird, and I'd kinda rather predetermined text than predetermined -ping!-

I'd've liked it if praising your dog after finding things would've made him a progressively better treasure hunter, or a nice little treat after kicking tail would've made him a slightly better fighter, not just open a book and poof, he's better. I'm not sure why we logically have to read a book in order to learn how to vulgar thrust. Or teach your dog to hide snout when you fart.

As a side note, the idle emote bothers me, especially when there's fate-of-the-world talk going on, but that might be because I always play girls (no idea what dude idle is like). Stop checking your finger nails or watching your dog wander around and pay attention, Sparrow! >( Pure and , and corrupt, and still so concerned about your left shoulder dandruff...

The only thing I don't agree with is the strength/agility/wisdom part. Other than the bombs and molotov cocktails part, that's pretty much just strength/skill/will. Neat ideas.

People need to calm down Fable 3 will blow Fable 2 out of the water.
The dog will be BETTER of course if they still have him/her.
I mean this is only the second game in the franchise what do you expect.
Peter is still making high end promises I remember I've seen a video where he said you could plant a oak tree and it would grow.Actually he's promised us that since fable 1.
So hopefully It'll be in Fable 3, as for the DLC people are ranting about(not in this thread) there will probably be one or two more. One more for sure for this simple reason we still have incomplete costumes. Knothole brought us our full Assassins uniform and the next (not stf) will more in likely bring us will user/wizard seeing as how will user is missing shoes and wizard is missing everything but hat and robe.
Anyways that was my counter rant!

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Who isn´t calm ? No one is yelling dude. These are just suggestions that we (the community) would like to see in the future and we are entitled to be heard as we are the customers. Sure they don´t have to put these things in but come on, we can still suggest cause these aren´t game breaking ideas ?

"I mean this is only the second game in the franchise what do you expect."

Um yeah. We´ve had much more complex RPG;s in the last generation which were more interactive than Fable 2 (Jade Empire, Kotor, baldurs gate). That´s all I´m saying. Sure they are different games and it´s that games are different. But if you take out features that basicly are an  no brainer in an RPG you´re doing an half assed job and the hard work you put in the game won´t be appreciated.

It´s like building an FPS and taking away the y-axis away to make it "more casual" and not too complex. In other words, taking steps back.
In an RPG , YOU  NEED   TO   BE    ABLE  TO  EXPRESS  YOURSELF.
Isn´t it a part of a RolePlaying Game to play a ROLE

My thoughts on the OP's suggestions:

• "Conversation system" -- LH has decided to make the Hero non-talkative because of their aversion to cut scenes. I doubt they're going to add any vocalization to the series unless they get over this aversion.
• "Better graphics" -- other than the totally ugly NPCs, I totally disagree. And frankly, I'm more interested in gameplay than graphics anyway.
• "More in-depth character attributes" -- this is also against one of the main premises of the series, Heroes of Strength, Skill and Will. Remember-- this is an action RPG, which is by nature less "statistical" than a traditional RPG. And to be quite honest, you clearly weren't paying attention to anything the NPCs said if you didn't hear anyone reacting to your deeds. I can't walk by a guard without hearing,"We've got our eye on you...murderer" or a villager saying, "You freed those people from the slavers... job!"
• Side note: how many RPGs out there actually force you to eat? Complaining about the food system makes no sense, because it actually has an effect in the game other than healing... unlike the vast majority of RPGs.
• "The dog" -- can go away, as far as I'm concerned. It takes up too much memory to run as it is.
• "Buying Property" -- if you put buildings in the game that cannot be purchased, people will complain about it. If every building in the game can be purchased, people will complain about it. This is a lose/lose proposition for LH.
• "Seasons" -- more trouble than it's worth, IMHO. This is something else that will use up memory unnecessarily and take away from gameplay.

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squidproquo:

You are a murdering machine, sir.

No, I don't have a sex change potion. But I do have this!

meralonne:

My thoughts on the OP's suggestions:

• "Conversation system" -- LH has decided to make the Hero non-talkative because of their aversion to cut scenes. I doubt they're going to add any vocalization to the series unless they get over this aversion.
• "Better graphics" -- other than the totally ugly NPCs, I totally disagree. And frankly, I'm more interested in gameplay than graphics anyway.
• "More in-depth character attributes" -- this is also against one of the main premises of the series, Heroes of Strength, Skill and Will. Remember-- this is an action RPG, which is by nature less "statistical" than a traditional RPG. And to be quite honest, you clearly weren't paying attention to anything the NPCs said if you didn't hear anyone reacting to your deeds. I can't walk by a guard without hearing,"We've got our eye on you...murderer" or a villager saying, "You freed those people from the slavers... job!"
• Side note: how many RPGs out there actually force you to eat? Complaining about the food system makes no sense, because it actually has an effect in the game other than healing... unlike the vast majority of RPGs.
• "The dog" -- can go away, as far as I'm concerned. It takes up too much memory to run as it is.
• "Buying Property" -- if you put buildings in the game that cannot be purchased, people will complain about it. If every building in the game can be purchased, people will complain about it. This is a lose/lose proposition for LH.
• "Seasons" -- more trouble than it's worth, IMHO. This is something else that will use up memory unnecessarily and take away from gameplay.

Graphical enhancments may have positive effects on gameplay also. The world becomes more interesting to explore and interactiving with elements like fire enhance the gameplay so why not put the extra effort for graphics wh*res (NOT  myself)

About the conversation: The main character dosen´t need have to have a voice. The main character needs different interaction methods than just farting on faces or acting as a chicken, like text options what to say on an nice interface.

Buying property: There is no need to buy everything in a game world. You could have the option to buy ANY building but there should be some sort of limit to that or a greater reward for the effort of collecting money enought buy all the property. A title for that is pretty weak IMO. There is no "lose lose" sitsuation on this, it just needs to be developed intellegently.

the food: Sure.. no RPG tells you to eat stuff, but in other rpg the fruits and other things have an impact on the character, for example additional stamina for a period of time. not just purity or morale points. If the game has food, make it useful, not just an extra stuffing in the game with no meaning.

attributes: Even Diablo is an ACTION RPG with more depth involved. These things make you who you are in the game world and gives you choices. I think it´s pretty important. About the town folk : I listen to what the towns folk say, and they yell those things over and over again. I feel so "inmmersed" with a game where I murder some one, fart a dozen times and play the banjo and suddenly everyone wants to marry me. Why don´t you see the bad design in that ?

Seasons: this was a thing I thought to complement the clothes more and have more meaning than appereance points do you look more intimitating or not.

Graphics-- you're assuming that it's possible using the existing game engine and hardware. I'm sure they will polish this up some for Fable 3 (assuming it is released before the successor to the Xbox 360), but a major graphical overhaul is unlikely.

Conversation-- using more of the "emotes" in conversation was supposed to be in the game, but was taken out before launch for some undisclosed reason. Maybe they couldn't get it to work properly, maybe it didn't really add anything to the game. We don't know, and LH isn't talking.

Buying property-- I can assure you, if they announce in Fable 3 that you cannot buy every piece of property you see, there will be a general uproar on this board. As it stands, purchasing property unlocks a title and an achievement. Does the economic system of Fable need an overhaul? Certainly. But how many RPGs out there have the problem that money becomes useless at some point in the game? I'd say most.

Food -- most RPGs I've played that have food in them are either the same as weak healing potions or healing potions with a bonus. Food in Fable has healing benefits and affects some of your stats (fatness, /, purity/corruption, XP bonuses). What's the difference?

Attributes: sorry, I've never played Diablo, so I don't know what you're talking about. I agree with you that they need to work on NPC reactions to the Hero. However, your initial statement was that they do not react at all, not that they react repetitively. Big difference.

Appearance: Not sure why you can't see any stats other than attractiveness in F2. Personally, I liked seeing how intimidating I was in the original and TLC. Not sure what that has to do with the weather, though.

 

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squidproquo:

You are a murdering machine, sir.

No, I don't have a sex change potion. But I do have this!

DRTJR:

wall of text LOL

It's not a wall of text if it's divided into paragraphs.

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th3warr1or:

DRTJR:

wall of text LOL

It's not a wall of text if it's divided into paragraphs.

Dude! They handed you this topic on a silver platter and you made no mention of the Dragonstomper!? Are you okay?

EDIT: Never mind. lol

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squidproquo:

You are a murdering machine, sir.

No, I don't have a sex change potion. But I do have this!

Everything has a tradeoff of some kind. More complexity in one area means either sacrificing complexity in another area, or increasing the resource requirements (also development time and cost) of the game. So while idealistically much of the stuff mentioned here would be nice, realistically... well, PM already has a tendency to over-reach with his ambitiousness. This isn't to stifle discussion of what we'd like to see, just to note the difference between 'idealism' and 'realism' in what we could expect. Random respnses.

the food: Sure.. no RPG tells you to eat stuff, but in other rpg the fruits and other things have an impact on the character, for example additional stamina for a period of time. not just purity or morale points. If the game has food, make it useful, not just an extra stuffing in the game with no meaning.

Many foods do give experience points. Trivial, perhaps, but IMO so are the temporary stamina gains one gets in other games.

Um yeah. We´ve had much more complex RPG;s in the last generation which were more interactive than Fable 2 (Jade Empire, Kotor, baldurs gate)

I don't know KOTOR, but I call bullshit on Jade Empire and Baldur's Gate in terms of interactivity. And I do so as a big fan of both those games and Bioware in general. They were great games, and certainly had more depth in developing your character (mechanically at least,) but the NPCs and the world itself were all pretty static.

As a side note, the idle emote bothers me, especially when there's fate-of-the-world talk going on, but that might be because I always play girls (no idea what dude idle is like). Stop checking your finger nails or watching your dog wander around and pay attention, Sparrow! >( Pure and , and corrupt, and still so concerned about your left shoulder dandruff...

Well, when you're idling you're kind of doing idle things. It is a bit one-dimensional in that no matter what kind of 'personality' you display in game she's still got that 'stereotypical girl vanity' going on, which only really tweaked me because my first play through in the game I kind of pictured her as a bit more tomboyish. Though there's one thing that did kinda get me. Okay, they've got gay, bi and straight; and apparently quite a bit more social acceptance in Albion for sexual diversity than even our enlightened world today. But crossdressing makes you the laughing stock of Bowerstone. No love for gender diversity? Bit OT there, though.

"attributes: Even Diablo is an ACTION RPG with more depth involved. These things make you who you are in the game world and gives you choices. I think it´s pretty important. About the town folk : I listen to what the towns folk say, and they yell those things over and over again. I feel so "inmmersed" with a game where I murder some one, fart a dozen times and play the banjo and suddenly everyone wants to marry me. Why don´t you see the bad design in that ?"

Wrong Diablo is a mmorpg which is very diffrent you need stats and statistics for mmo's.
In all fairness you're wrong with most of your ranting.
What if some people want to be "king/queen" just because you don't want to means no one can?!
That doesn't seem quite fair to me I mean I myself enjoy being called "KING".
So basically what I'm trying to say is less QQ please.

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Well i think for Fable 3 they will deffidently be utilizing NATAL for all sorts of things, especially NPC interaction

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www.tmunderground.com

TroyChaos:

"attributes: Even Diablo is an ACTION RPG with more depth involved.
These things make you who you are in the game world and gives you
choices. I think it´s pretty important. About the town folk : I listen
to what the towns folk say, and they yell those things over and over
again. I feel so "inmmersed" with a game where I murder some one, fart
a dozen times and play the banjo and suddenly everyone wants to marry
me. Why don´t you see the bad design in that ?"

Wrong Diablo is a mmorpg

Uh... no, really it's not. World of Warcraft is an mmorpg. Diablo and Diablo2 are action-rpg's with online play.

which is very diffrent you need stats and statistics for mmo's.

I'm not sure why this is any different for an ACTION RPG. The only plausible difference is the extent; a game designed to be single-player can get away with being a bit more shallow in that area.

Much of what you say is excellent and makes sense, however there IS a limit to the amount of things you can cram onto a disc.

If you added dialogue you might not want to put in seasons or food things. Increasing Graphics can also reduce how much actual gameplay aspects you can fit in
(which imo is MUCH more important than how things look. If you want the game to seem more realistic, heres a tip. Sop playing and go out in the real world, last time i checked it looked as realistic as possible.)

Yes all these things are nice to consider, but you cant have all of them. IMO, i think LH should focus on improving storyline, gameplay and characters more than adding things that arent truly necessary.

About NATAL, I truly hope that they will not make Fable 3 NATAL. In fact i think NATAL is just microsofts cheap attempt at a wii, which are both useless in the gaming industry.

I honestly didnt feel like reading all that. Anyway you know what would have made it really epic... If it had no game breaking glitches after it was "finished and tested"

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Easy, Lionhead should open a studio somewhere in Canada and give it the Fable franchise.

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“I am the ripper, the tearer, the slasher. I am the teeth in the darkness! The talons in the night! My name is strength! And lust! And power!"

Beowulf71:

Easy, Lionhead should open a studio somewhere in Canada and give it the Fable franchise.

Amen.

Zeks:

Buying property:
This is actully done pretty well in the game. But the same thing here is that "YOU CAN!! why bother?" . Sure you get loads of cash, but for what purpose? In this section I can´t think of anything really. I guess there should be a max number like 5 houses you can buy in the game from different regions, and could use those as storage or safe houses. You don´t need to be a "king or queen" of albion. That dosen´t really go with the story anyway. A lonely beggar kid is 20 years later a king ? Cliché even in the Disney department.

YOU CAN play the game, Why bother?
Just a silly comment, that "YOU CAN, why bother?"- thing.

On the otherhand, the next thing you ask is for what purpose one should stockpile money. question, since the most expensive thing you can buy in the game only costs 1 million. One can obtain that kind of economic "wealth" within a week of gameplay. There just isn't anything to farm money for. Don't know if I should laugh or cry x)

Let's just forget about the buying house-restrictions, since this game is about choices. You don't HAVE to buy all the buildings unless you want to ..

And actually, I do think that "king or queen" has something to do with the story, or haven't you played "See the Future"?



post on the other sections, though. Especially the "Graphics".
But as always, a game can always get better, one can find them little things to improve no matter how detailed the game is.
I'm just happy with what we got.

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Gradius1:

If the abuse towards each other continues, there will be bans.

Jezehbelle:

As a side note, the idle emote bothers me, especially when there's fate-of-the-world talk going on, but that might be because I always play girls (no idea what dude idle is like). Stop checking your finger nails or watching your dog wander around and pay attention, Sparrow! >( Pure and , and corrupt, and still so concerned about your left shoulder dandruff...

The "Dude idle" is kinda lika the opposite, while the female characters seems to mind a lot of stuff, the male character sighs and look in different directions.

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Gradius1:

If the abuse towards each other continues, there will be bans.

The biggest thing that annoys me in Fable II is that you buy a house and cannot close the door so everyone comes in and blocks the corridors. Esp. In Bowerstone. How about being able to set it so only you and your family can enter your house? Also storage (as in oblivion) and storage across saves would be useful (so you can restart still with your favorite weapon). I hate carrying around loads of outfits and weapons that are to shiny to sell but I'll never use.

I think a cross between oblivion and fable would make a near perfect game xD.

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Gaara!