Fable II Choices and Adventures

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

suzanne536 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:33:49 GMT

Ok, as you level your spells up you will find they charge a little faster and have a longer duration.

But, a level 1 spell is just that a level 1 spell. I find Slow time is more useful at a level 4 or 5 in that I can charge off a time spell, and have time to cast another spell of different caliber before having to recharge my time spell.

I have found a level 5 inferno will take most everything out in one foul swoop, and a level 4 or 5 shock is hilarious to watch as the enemies twitch, and some even explode in to a ball of lightening. All that is left is their charred remains.

Time, shock, and fire are my main spells, I use the others in a limited capacity. As you go through the game you are going to find diffent spells are better for somethings than others.

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

ninotores — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:24:51 GMT

You still don't understand. I'm gonna word this one more time for you: in one's planned spell scheme for levels 1 through 5, if there is a spell that you only plan to use at level 1 and no higher than that (instead opting for other spells at the higher levels, obviously), then there's no real benefit to leveling said spell past level 1 -- this is the truth I was trying to verify by posting this thread.

Now, I can't word it any more clearly for you than that. I have to wonder if you just scanned over my posts or something without really understanding them.

But it doesn't matter anyway. I answered my own question. So don't worry about it.

Honestly, it was really kind of silly of me to even post a thread about it in the first place, since it was so easy to verify on my own.

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

Gigamet — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:11:14 GMT

ninotores:
And it appear that it isn't. A new character fresh out of the Guild Cave with level 1 Shock will still cast that level 1 Shock with equal efficacy as an end-game character casting that same zero-charge level 1 Shock spell, even with the Shock spell-tree fully leveled... or at least, that's what I've presently concluded.

But the whole point of the fable 2 magic system is charging spells to higher levels and not just using them at level 1, for instance; Using level 1 shock on a late game enemy, would still have the same effect as a beggining character casting the same level 1 spell. but the whole point is, is to cast beyond level 1 to increase power and attack radius. if you try and go through the game as a spellcaster with just level 1 spells, you will not get far before finding you have to upgrade your spells and charge past level 1.

its not the same as fable 1, so stop thinking it is and get some high level spells and start charging...jeez...

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

ninotores — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:12:15 GMT

But unfortunately, force push falls short towards the end game, with very little enemies falling down from its blast (spire guards won't even flinch)

Even with a level 5 casting of it? They still don't get knocked off their feet? That's terrible then. Bah.

Question: will level 5 Shock still stun those high-level enemies?

Did you make sure to set time control to level 3 and charge it up?
try it on an enemy in combat, you'll see the difference then, i guarantee it.

just for the record, on the note of the assassins rush version of time control, it increases the distance at which you can appear behind an enemy, without falling short and re appearing in front of them. try both from a far away distance on a villager, with safety turned off, you'll find that the level 1 assassins rush version of time control will not allow you to warp as far as the level 3 version.

You don't understand what I meant. My point in posting this thread was to find out if leveling a spell past a certain level makes it more effective at said lower levels. So I only wanted to know if an instant, level 1 casting of a spell ever improves somehow through further leveling in that same spell tree. A loading screen tip vaguely suggests it, and I wanted to know if its true.

And it appear that it isn't. A new character fresh out of the Guild Cave with level 1 Shock will still cast that level 1 Shock with equal efficacy as an end-game character casting that same zero-charge level 1 Shock spell, even with the Shock spell-tree fully leveled... or at least, that's what I've presently concluded.

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

Gigamet — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:10:06 GMT

ninotores:

I just tested Time Control level 1 with a level 3 capacity vs Time Control level 1 with a level 1 capacity...

And the duration of both the AoE and targeted aspects of the spell remain the same, regardless of the leveling.

Did you make sure to set time control to level 3 and charge it up?
try it on an enemy in combat, you'll see the difference then, i guarantee it.

just for the record, on the note of the assassins rush version of time control, it increases the distance at which you can appear behind an enemy, without falling short and re appearing in front of them. try both from a far away distance on a villager, with safety turned off, you'll find that the level 1 assassins rush version of time control will not allow you to warp as far as the level 3 version.

i apologize for the double post, but i don't know how to edit in a quote to a post already made.

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

Gigamet — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:05:16 GMT

What you say is true about the force push being the best of both, in terms of no enemy resistance. But unfortunately, force push falls short towards the end game, with very little enemies falling down from its blast (spire guards won't even flinch). it has however, got one of the highest damage ratings of any rank 5 spell.

And as far as i'm aware, very little enemies are resistant to fire completely, most will burst into flames or just die where they stand. however there are a few that will take it, but most of these cases make the target enemies a simple one hit left until death.

Shock is to have, when there are very few enemies around, because it has very high damage and causes opponents to flinch constantly until they die, which they all do at some point.

If you're looking for a happy, and somewhat comedic medium to all of these, the tornado spell at rank 5 is particularly useful. No enemy has a resistance to it, like force push, and it causes any enemy (at rank 5) to spin around inside the tornado taking extra damage if the tornado picks up any stray debris. it also damages anything that gets close to it, and when aimed forwards, it can actually create a wall that most enemies cannot pass through. Its downside? it has pretty low damage, takes a long time to charge and doesn't last all that long.

Its up to you what spell you choose as your rank 5, the only thing i will suggest for making things easier, is raise dead. and you should avoid the chaos spell until the games main storyline is aside, and swords, isn't all that at all, apart from the level 1 spam.

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

ninotores — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:50:31 GMT

But anyway, I'm getting off-topic...

I just tested Time Control level 1 with a level 3 capacity vs Time Control level 1 with a level 1 capacity...

And the duration of both the AoE and targeted aspects of the spell remain the same, regardless of the leveling.

Whether you have the spell leveled to 1 or 3, casting it at level 1 always results in a 4 second AoE duration, and a 2 second weapon damage multiplier duration via the teleport.

So yeah, it appears clear now that if one never plans on casting a certain spell past a certain level, there's no reason to at all to level the spell past that level, in terms of combat efficiency.

So unless someone produces information that indicates differently, I'm just gonna go ahead and conclude that the loading screen tip about lower-level spells becoming more powerful as you level is bs.

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

ninotores — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:45:57 GMT

For the record, I've never played WoW, and never plan to.

the combat bonus thing you shouldn't worry about, this game has dulled down the amount needed and buffed the amount you get.

to know. Thank you. I'll quit worrying about that then.

Anyway, I know Force Push doesn't do as much damage as Inferno and Shock, but from what I've read, no enemies have specific immunity/resistance to it (unlike the elemental damage spells). So in that regard, it seems to me like it's the most all-around useful level 5 spell, one you won't ever have to worry about changing. Besides, at level 5 the extra damage from Shock and Inferno is mostly overkill anyway.

(Correct me if I'm wrong about the creature immunity, though. I know that in Fable 1, it was true with Force Push vs Fireball or Lightning, at least.)

Plus, it just looks fun with Fable 2's ragdoll physics, and it also allows Dog to get in on the combat more, because he'll always go and kill at least one of the enemies that you knock down with Force Push, at all levels of the spell (except level 1 Force Push, which is useless). That isn't true for the enemies you stun with Shock.

Also, in terms of utility, Force Push is like the best of Shock and Inferno, only with reduced damage as the trade-off -- Force Push has the additional disabling function that Shock has, along with the no target restriction that Inferno has.

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

Gigamet — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:44:36 GMT

i have max level on all spells, and i can safely say that time control has its uses at maximum level, such as the colloseum and the crucible.

if you're looking for a AOE spell (*snicker* WoW players...) get fireball to maximum level, because its damage is and doesn't have a target amount restriction like max level lightning, force push in fable 2 is useless, don't even waste the experience. one spell you should try is raise dead, it keeps enemies occupied for a long time, which allows you to charge your more lethal spells (set it as your level 2 spell and your level 4 spell, cast level 2 one first, giving you time to cast your level 4 version. then while everyone is occupied with your ghosties, blast them all with level 5 fireball)

as for the guy who said about will lines, they start appearing when your spell level average is 3 (all spells at level 3). and the combat bonus thing you shouldn't worry about, this game has dulled down the amount needed and buffed the amount you get.

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

ninotores — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:28:29 GMT

Yeah, but see, I don't only want time control. It seems clear to me that everyone needs at least one damage-dealing AOE spell in this game (Shock or Force Push, I figure, since both at lower levels will still stun / knock-back enemies and thus still have some utility value at all levels), and it should be gotten to level 5, so you can use it at level 5 to kill everything in sight. So I'm having to account for that in my planned build.

Really though, I ultimately just wanna be educated as to exactly how this leveling up process works on lower levels of the spell that's leveled. Does it only reduce charge-up time at those levels, or does it do more than that? Why level a spell up to level 5, if you're never gonna actually use that spell at level 5? Is there a reason? Will leveling it up that high make it more powerful at levels 1-4? There's a loading screen tip that implies that, but I'd be more comfortable with hard facts, not vague speculation. For all I know, that loading screen tip might be exclusively referring to the charge-up times when it says the lower level spells are becoming "more powerful."

Re: Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

mexicanstrawhat — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:10:41 GMT

I know from one of my characters that ONLY having up to Level 4 time control doesn't make you have any noticeable will lines, so I would definitely level it up some more.

Just bought Fable 2, have a noob question concerning Will spells...

ninotores — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:46:11 GMT

Just for the record, I'm not a complete noob -- I played the hell out of Fable: TLC. I learned early on that a bow-specializing character with time control, multi-arrow, and assassin's rush (for the occasional melee) could beat the entire game with only a point or two in Physique and nothing in Toughness (yay potions of life), and could demolish any boss character, any quest, anything at all really, all the while piling up huge amounts of experience via massive multipliers, because your character never gets hit and one-hit kills almost everything that isn't a boss with multi-arrow and a bow using proper augments.

But now bring on Fable 2, and things are a bit different this time...

It's like Lionhead figured out how stupidly powerful my Fable 1 build was, and made sure that couldn't happen again. No more experience multipliers, just somewhat vague "style" bonus parameters. Time control is nerfed (still powerful, but nerfed), becuase you have to charge it to get a long duration, and that changes everything. Now the key to this game and getting huge experience bonuses, as far as I can tell, all has to do with this new spell casting level scheme.

And now we're getting to the crux of my question. Time control level 1 is great, because of the built in assassin's rush, and you can instant cast it non-targetted to get time for casting a higher level damage AOE spell, the use of which seems to be the new best way in Fable 2 to get your experience bonus really high (multiple enemies killed simultaneously = huge bonuses).

So, my question is... if I never plan on casting time control beyond level 1, is there any reason at all to level it any higher?

I know the manual and game itself says that increasing the level of a spell makes the spell more powerful at lower levels. Other than making them charge faster, I've seen this with Force Push I think, because I'm pretty sure Force Push 2 wasn't knocking bandits off their feet before I had leveled it to level 3. But then, I'm not totally sure about that...

With time control cast at level 1, the spell always fills that first level 1 circle instantly, even if the spell is still only level 1. So in that regard, if I'm only gonna ever cast it at level 1, there's no reason to take it beyond level 1. However... is there a benefit in other ways? Will a level 1 casting of time control be more powerful if I have the spell leveled up higher? Will the teleport (i.e. assassin's rush) damage multiplier be higher? Will the AOE duration be longer? I just don't know.

If you're wondering why I care so much, it's because I don't like the Will tattoos... never have. So just like I always did with Fable 1, I'm only trying to invest the necessary minimum in Will to have a strong character in Fable 2, and so if I don't need time control beyond level 1, if there's no real benefit to the level 1 casting of the spell if I take it to higher levels... then I want to avoid it, because that'll be just a little bit more saved towards keeping my character free of having wierd blue lines on his face (lol).